Fiero 2m8 LT1 NX Roadster conversion (Page 11/46)
motoracer838 JUL 04, 11:56 AM
Ryan; have you tried using myfiero.com for image hosting? Iv'e never been able to get pip to work, even with the help of a friend that is a computer geek.

Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe
Fiero2m8 JUL 04, 12:37 PM
Thanks Joe, nice to have options.
I tested it out on the Totally O/T section - works great.
Fiero2m8 JUL 06, 05:27 PM
Getting the axles to fit for a custom swap might be the hardest thing to get right.
In my opinion, the best way is to do some research first to understand how they go together and what you need.
From there you can start a cross reference search etc. to get a plan of attack to minimize trial and error.

Here are a couple links that discuss axle swaps:

http://dtcc.cz28.com/swap/axles.htm
http://spacecoastfieros.com/tech/440%2D4T60/
http://fp.enter.net/~rockcrawl/4T60a.html

As some reading next I went to the local wreckers to get axle cross reference info I was interested in since Fiero's are rare in the boneyard around here.
I was interested in a few things:

1. What other cars came with the same RIGHT axle as a Manual Trans 85-88 Fiero?
2. What other cars came with the same RIGHT axle as a Automatic Trans 85-88 Fiero?
3. What other cars came with the same L/R axles as the 90 Cadillac Seville my 4T60 was from?

Below are the answers for the benefit of the forum:

1. Fiero '85-88 axle; MT, R. also came on:

6000 '87 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), MT (5 spd), R.
6000 '88 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), MT (5 spd), R., early
Celebrity '87 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), MT (5 spd), R.
Celebrity '88 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), MT (5 spd), R., early

2. Fiero '85-88 axle; AT, R. also came on:

6000 '85 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), 3 spd, R., 6-260 (4.3L, diesel)
6000 '85-86 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), 3 spd, R., 6-173 (2.8L)
6000 '87 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), AT, 3 spd, R., 6-173 (2.8L)
6000 '89 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), 3 spd, R., 4-151 (2.5L)
Celebrity '85 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), AT, 3 spd, R., 6-260 (4.3L, diesel)
Celebrity '85-87 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), AT, 3 spd, R., 6-173 (2.8L)
Celebrity '89 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), 3 spd, R., 4-151 (2.5L)
Century '87 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), AT, 3 spd, R., 6-173 (2.8L)
Century '89 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), 3 spd, R., 4-151 (2.5L)
Ciera '87 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), AT, 3 spd, R., 6-173 (2.8L)
Ciera '89 Front axle; 4" BC (100mm), 3 spd, R., 4-151 (2.5L)
Citation '85 Front axle; AT, R., 6-173 (2.8L)
Skylark '85 Front axle; AT, 6 cyl, R., late

3. Seville '89-90 Front axle; w/o ABS; R. also came on:

Eldorado '89-90 Front axle; w/o ABS; R.


The answers to #3 were slim!

Murphy's law applied here as none of these #3 axles were available in the Niagara region.
I thought, no problem, I already have 4T60 axles housings I previously upgraded to fit the old TH125c, so why would I need Cadillac parts....wrong

Fiero2m8 JUL 06, 05:51 PM
Here is the difference between the TH125c axle housings and the larger 4T60's:



I swapped the 4T60 bearings onto the stock automatic axles for the upgrade - here you can see they fit the larger housings only now:





The main reason I went to all the trouble to do this was so I could continue to use the Fiero or 6000 with light duty brakes etc. CV joints shown here with retaining c-clip and axle removed:



However, when I went to plug the drivers side axle in the trans, oops!
The splined shaft was too large for the normal 4T60 axle housing - I needed to get a Caddy one
The wreckers only had two 90 Devilles in the back field, but I was lucky that one of the two had the axle housings I needed - here they are:





Unfortunately there were also two different sizes!
The drivers side required a larger boot with 1/2" notches, while the passenger side used 3/4" notches in the boot!
I think that the larger drivers side one was to accomodate the short axle clearance and/or handle additional torque.
I trip to Automotive Warehouse for to new 90' Seville inner boots solved that - here they are:



Fiero2m8
Fiero2m8 JUL 06, 06:02 PM
The next hurdle was the rear hubs:
The right rear one had some spline damage from a previous axle life lesson so I grabbed one at the wreckers off a 94 Grand AM with 5x100mm pattern shown here:



Unfortunately it didn't quite fit, so off to Crappy Tire (aka Canadian Tire) for some new ones.
Amazingly they had a pair in stock!
Here they are:




I also bought some new CV bands and asked to borrow the free loaner tool for them, but it was still MIA.
Next I found out that they can't get CV grease anymore, so I bought the last four tubes they had.
Looks like I will once again be using trusty dull side cutters and hammer to get the CV bands on tight

Fiero2m8 JUL 06, 06:11 PM
The last thing I did in prep to assemble and install the axles was to re-install the struts and hardware at the top.
Don't worry the struts and hardware will be painted up pretty after an alignment.




------------------

1986 Fiero2m8 (LT1 NX / 4T60 Roadster Build)
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/071642.html

[This message has been edited by Fiero2m8 (edited 07-06-2006).]

Fiero2m8 JUL 07, 02:59 PM
O.K. here is the build up and installation of the axles - I'll start with the passenger (right) side.

For my setup, I had done a rough calculation and "in theory" I believe that I should be able to use a stock Fiero right axle for the passenger side. (Fiero axles have Archie's guarantee not to break using his kit during normal driving... )
Since I had moved the engine assembly roughly 1.5 inches left of stock and the 4T60 right axle seal was approx 2" longer than the TH125c trans - I concluded the axle should be within 1/2 inch of the ideal position in the tripot.

Lets see if I'm right...

Since it is critical that the axles don't bottom out when the suspension is under load, I decided to do a test fit without CV boots.
That way I could measure and inspect the axle's habits and position throughout the suspension travel range.

Here is a shot of the axle installed without boots and the suspension unloaded:



The CV joint and new hub:



Overhead shot:



At this time I realized that my engine assembly is no longer completely square in the cradle!
I had decided not to move Archie's front mount mainly because it was already bolted and welded in the perfect left/right spot.
However with the 4T60 trans being larger, we were limited on how far back the trans could go before hitting the rear of the cradle.
If I had to do it over I would try moving Archie's front mount a 1/2 inch closer to the firewall for overhead appearance improvement.
There is plenty of clearance at the front header to do this.
However when I looked at the most important shorter than stock drivers side axle, I noticed that this slight angle was perfectly square to the hub. It happens to be in an ideal location over there so I'm not going to move the engine mount at this time.
If I did, it would place the drivers side axle housing behind the hub (probably the stock location).

O.K. back on topic, next I installed the tie-rod and did an eyeball alignment for now (slight toe-in) and bolted them up.
Remember, these are the ones I had shortened 2 inches and flipped the mounts around two inches to the outside of the car.
Hopefully this will reduce bumpsteer on the car that is now lowered 1.5 coils.



Next, I set up the jack in order to simulate loading the suspension:



Using a tape measure and a coat hanger with a 90 degree bend on the end, I marked the clearance between the bearings and bottomed out on the hanger:



Then I measured the distance between the transcribed marks, results were:

Total depth of axle housing 4"
Axle too long minimum clearance 1.5"
Axle too short minimum clearance 1.0"



Success!

The axle stays near the middle of the axle housing throughout it's suspension travel range
Fiero2m8 JUL 07, 03:12 PM
Time to clean and do final assembly on the passenger side axle:

All retaining clips installed after sliding CV boots on:




Here is a shot of the assembled axle, like you would buy one off the shelf:



Now it's back in the car:






Fiero2m8

[This message has been edited by Fiero2m8 (edited 07-07-2006).]

Fiero2m8 JUL 07, 03:51 PM
Driver's side axle should go right in, as it was previously modified to fit the LT1/TH125c swap.
At that time I shortened the stock axle by approx 3/4" and reversed it to gain additional clearance.
Here is a shot of the axle reassembled with the Cadillac tripots and boot already on - notice only 1/2" of axle between boots rather than the stock length of 1.5":




I wasn't able to use both c-clips on the tripot bearing end, so I flipped it over (again to shorten the overall length) and cold welded the splines to lock in the bearing to the axle in place of the retaining clip. This method isn't ideal, but I didn't want to weld and apply heat for fear of weaking the heat treated axle. This method did work for 12 months previously without failure, so I am using it again.

Here is a shot of it installed. Once again I used the jack to measure overall clearance. On this side the minimum clearance is only 1/2" from bottoming out but it never gets closer than that throughout the suspension travel:






I was a little concerned that when the axle is completely unloaded the angle is a little sharp downward and might increase wear on the outer CV boot.
This car doesn't pick rear tires off the ground like an 84 VW GTI did, but I am considering adding a rear sway bar to minimize the potential for unnecessary excessive body roll with the additional weight back there.
If anyone has installed a 22mm bar on the rear of their Fiero please post pictures showing the mounting locations.
I would also appreciate opinions / experiences of how the rear sway bar effects the cars balance and handling.

Below are some shots of the completed axle installation as seen from above and behind the engine compartment:









Hopefully I'm getting towards the less messy and more fun jobs on this project...if wiring is considered fun

Thanks,
Ryan & Fiero2m8

[This message has been edited by Fiero2m8 (edited 07-07-2006).]

Fiero2m8 JUL 08, 03:23 AM
Most of the work tonight was cleaning up the garage, but I did install the factory LT1 water pump and prepped Archie's alternator bracket for reassembly:

Added a bleeder on the gooseneck and will be plugging an unused port on the front this time around:




Can't remember why I paint the bracket last time:




Used a wire brush on a cordless drill to bring the aluminum back:



Planning to work on hoses tomorrow using Winston's diagram to help with my memory:



Check out www.FieroLT1.com for more great details on the LT1.
It certainly helped me out last year when I first installed the motor!