ecotec swap (Page 11/98)
fierodeletre DEC 12, 07:35 PM
kinda sounds like the mod those 3.8 guys do on their speedometers...

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If you can't be good, be good at it.

82-T/A [At Work] DEC 12, 09:40 PM

quote
Originally posted by wftb:

so far i havent found a header that will work the way i want it .as mentioned before ,the cavalier headers use up a lot of trunk space.the manifold from the 2.4 solstice motor should bolt right up and it points down instead of straight out.but i am going to wait until someone starts making a header for the solstice and get one of those.there isnt any market for a solstice header yet ,i have gone to a lot of sites and no solstice headers yet.this is what i am stuck with at the moment:




You're in luck. They DO make headers for the Solstice, and I have one on mine. I've had it now for almost 6 months. They are made by a company called Clear Image Automotive. The shorty header is friggin AWESOME.

http://www.clearimageautomotive.com/Pontiac%20Solstice-Saturn%20Sky%20(2006).htm

The guys who own the shop is Todd Cason and Daniel Ferrara.

I'm on order for their free-flow catalytic converter. I was going to e-mail you because I now have a spare Solstice exhaust manifold, but I reconsidered because I might as well keep everything for this car in case it becomes something of a rarity in 30 years (I plan to still have it then).

But, I might as well get to my original point that I was going to post before I saw this one...

Why wouldn't you want to consider using a 2.4 VVT Solstice or HHR motor? The 2.2 EcoTec is a great motor... yeah, but it's grossly underpowered and is really not an upgrade over the V6 Fiero.

With a free-flow intake and a free-flow exhaust, you can easily squeeze 200hp out of the Solstice 2.4 VVT motor.

My Solstice weighs about ~2850 pounds, and I typically see 18s in the city, and nearly 30 on the highway for fuel economy. Imagine what that would do in a Fiero which weighs 2700 pounds (probably 50-75lbs less because that's figuring the weight of an all cast iron V6 or L4).


Anyway, just something to consider.


Here is one on eBay right now for $1,899.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-4-L-ECOTEC-VVT-ENGINE-TRANS-GM-OE-CHEVY-COBALT-SS-ION_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ011QQitemZ320041502567QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

and here's another, but for $1,200:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-Chevy-Cobalt-SS-2-4-Liter-Ecotec-VVT-10k_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ013QQitemZ230001961403QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

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Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible (Wife's Car)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 (3.2) 5-Speed
1984 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 SE
1984 Porsche 944 5-Speed
1981 Pontiac TransAm (Olds 455BB)
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

82-T/A [At Work] DEC 12, 09:58 PM

quote
Originally posted by wftb:

i think 200 hp out of the 2.2 is do able with headers , better intake and throttle body ,custom exhaust and better cams .my plan is just to hang a turbo on mine , maybe next winter.i dont want to do anything that requires engine surgery .this motor ran really strong the way it was and with the better exhaust i am putting on it will be even stronger.i priced out a g-tech unit down in London today and i am going to get one before spring and then i will have some performance numbers to post.
i think the supercharged moter would be great .the kit is 2500.00 plus shipping .i think i can turbo for a lot less than that.plus once they start showing up in the wrecking yards , it should be cheaper to buy a whole engine and transmission than what the supercharger kit is going for.if GM would hurry up and put the supercharged motor in more cars ,the price would drop in a hurry.
as far as kits go ,i talked to Lloyd at Fast fieros and he doesnt want to do a kit until he has done some turnkey jobs and he has been too busy to mess with the ecotec.ceticars has a stand alone wiring harness and adapter plates are available to use the stock fiero tranny .of course that drives the price up .




Honestly... you may want to consider going with a 2.4 LD9 "TwinCam" motor for your swap instead.

It might actually be a MUCH better solution for you. I've had quite a bit of experience with the TwinCam, and I have to say it's a really great motor. It's not much different than the Ecotec, at least if we're talking about a NON VVT one.

You can get a low mileage "LD9" TwinCam engine for VERY cheap. They are ALL over eBay. You'll want to find one from a 96-98 Pontiac Grand Am / Olds Achieva, or the Chevy Cavalier / Sunfire with the 2.4. They also had them in the last generation of GrandAms up until 2002.

The reason I mention it is because... GM offers a FACTORY PERFORMANCE KIT for the 2.4 LD9 TwinCam with the Getrag 5-Speed. It's a supercharger that bolts RIGHT up to it. It even has the air intake facing towards the Fiero's factory air inlet / side scoop.

Now, the 2.4 TwinCam is basically the "OBD-2" version of the Quad-4. There are MANY kits that were offered for the Quad-4 over the years. There don't appear to be any currently available anymore, but there are enough people with them that you can easily get information. I mention the Quad-4 because you can actually CONTROL the 2.4 TwinCam using all LATE 2.3 Quad-4 electronics. The 1993-1995 Quad-4 computer / engine harness will bolt RIGHT up to the TwinCam.

Or... you can still do what he's doing in this thread for his Ecotec. The benefit of course to going with OBD-1 is that the ECM is more or less self contained and doesn't have any requirements for all that other crap (the ABS computer, the radio, the dash cluster processor, all that other crap). So, you can basically use your STOCK Fiero gauge cluster (or a 120, or whatever) and hook it all up to the OBD-1 Quad-4 ECM.

What's even BETTER is that there is a set of upgraded camshafts that can be used on the 2.4 TwinCam. This is called the "Secret Cam Swap". It's a silly name, but basically what you do is take an intake cam from a 1993 Quad-4, and an exhaust cam from a 1995 Quad-4 (or it might be the other way around). That said, you end up with exactly 11 more peak horsepower, and a shift of power by about 200rpms. (slightly less INITIAL power off the line, but much much more pull in the mid to upper rpms).

But, in a Fiero that's much lighter than a crapalier, or an older GrandAm, you're going to be putting out some decent power.

Consider it, the stock 2.4 LD9 TwinCam has basically a totally FLAT torque curve... which almost negates any benefit really of having VVT (you wouldn't see much improvement).

The stock LD9 TwinCam puts out 155hp and 150lbs of torque in it's typical form. With the Secret Cam Swap, you'll see somewhere around 165hp and 155lbs of torque. Now, when you go with the GM supercharger, you'll be putting out around ~220hp.


It's a REALLY great swap, and what's so nice about the 2.4 TwinCam is that it's actually a fairly refined motor (compared to the Quad-4). It has a set of balancing shafts which help quiet and smooth the engines operation.

If you want more information on this motor, the swap, or about the supercharger... you can go to www.Quad4Forums.com
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Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible (Wife's Car)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 (3.2) 5-Speed
1984 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 SE
1984 Porsche 944 5-Speed
1981 Pontiac TransAm (Olds 455BB)
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 12-12-2006).]

wftb DEC 12, 10:44 PM
its a little late for me to do a quad 4 style swap since i have already put about 6000 km on my ecotec swapped 86 gt.but i agree that the quad 4 and all its varients are great motors .but i wanted 3 things out of my swap:
1.i wanted an engine that is still in production
2.i wanted aluminum block and head
3.i wanted 5 speeds and a stronger transaxle
as far as using the fiero dash cluster and gauges ,i really didnt care if they got used or not.when i found out that a cavalier cluster could be had for only 65.00 i jumped at it.it was easy to adapt to the fiero pod and the whole assembly doesnt even weigh a pound.it gives the car an updated look without a lot of work.
the cavalier intake also points in the same direction as the fiero.shorten it up and clamp it on.
there are lots of go fast goodies for the eco and i really think that the eco has more potential than the quad four type motors.it is a much newer design .we will just have to see if anyone takes it that far (fieroturbo is getting there)
wftb DEC 12, 10:52 PM
82 TA at work : thanks for the tip and info on the solstice headers .i didnt notice that post until after i wrote my previous post.
fierodeletre DEC 12, 10:57 PM
wftb: Did you ever get to verify if that solstice header was 165 bucks? oh, and was that Canadian or American dollars? Oh, and as to doing your turbo set up on the cheap, How much are you going to complete it for? or rather, do you have a budget in mind?

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If you can't be good, be good at it.

wftb DEC 13, 12:32 AM
in my fiero the 2.2 ecotec out performs my old modified 2.8 v6 .that motor had a fiero store performance rebuild kit ,bored 30 over ,windage tray ,performance harmonic balancer ,pully kit ,and completely balanced rotating assembly and i ported the stock exhaust manifolds and put on a brand new cat.but the ecotec is still faster and it was running on a cobbled together exhaust system and a fuel pump running 14 psi lighter than a cavalier pump .the 2.2 ecotec weighs some where around 150 pounds less than a 2.8 and has stock hp ratings of between 140 and 148 hp depending on the car it is in.the stock fiero 2.8 v6 is rated at 140 hp but sure doesnt feel like it.the best car and driver could get out of a brand new 86 gt v6 4 speed with exactly the same options as mine(air , cruise ,pw ,pdl ,spoiler ,subwoofer etc ) was a 15.9 second 1/4mile time at 85 mph.observed fuel economy was only 16 mpg so i think they were thrashing it pretty good. i found a test by motor trend of a 4dr 2,2 eco powered cobalt and it did the 1/4 in 16.2 sec at 86.8 mph.that is in a 75 lb heavier car than a stock fiero with a v6 .also running all weather tires and not near as aerodynamic body as the fiero gt.so take the ecotec and put it in the fiero gt.power to weight ratio becomes 18.77 lbs per horsepower compared with 19.84 lbs. per horsepower with the old v6.and thats assuming the hp ratings for both motors are on the up and up .in the car and driver road test it says that the 2.8 has its maximum hp at 5200 rpm.i dont think too many stock 2.8 drivers will deny that the power drops off rapidly above 4800 rpm.on the other hand the power on my ecotec stays strong right up to the 6500 redline.i also now have 5 speeds where i used to have 4.
i looked at the pics of the 2.4 and they look great but they seem expensive.also you have drive by wire to contend with and my ecm / bcm combo will not run that motor.so unless they are willing to throw in the ecm /bcm and the rest of the cars wiring harness and the ignition with the key in it ,that motor would be useless to me.it wont even run in a 2.2 cobalt without the ecm / bcm and the ignition key assembly.
wftb DEC 13, 12:38 AM
i have given up on the idea of the solstice manifold for now .but those shorty solstice headers look really interesting and they look like they will clear everything.i dont think the long headers will work ,probably hit the transaxle.
82-T/A [At Work] DEC 13, 11:50 AM

quote
Originally posted by wftb:

in my fiero the 2.2 ecotec out performs my old modified 2.8 v6 .that motor had a fiero store performance rebuild kit ,bored 30 over ,windage tray ,performance harmonic balancer ,pully kit ,and completely balanced rotating assembly and i ported the stock exhaust manifolds and put on a brand new cat.but the ecotec is still faster and it was running on a cobbled together exhaust system and a fuel pump running 14 psi lighter than a cavalier pump .the 2.2 ecotec weighs some where around 150 pounds less than a 2.8 and has stock hp ratings of between 140 and 148 hp depending on the car it is in.the stock fiero 2.8 v6 is rated at 140 hp but sure doesnt feel like it.the best car and driver could get out of a brand new 86 gt v6 4 speed with exactly the same options as mine(air , cruise ,pw ,pdl ,spoiler ,subwoofer etc ) was a 15.9 second 1/4mile time at 85 mph.observed fuel economy was only 16 mpg so i think they were thrashing it pretty good. i found a test by motor trend of a 4dr 2,2 eco powered cobalt and it did the 1/4 in 16.2 sec at 86.8 mph.that is in a 75 lb heavier car than a stock fiero with a v6 .also running all weather tires and not near as aerodynamic body as the fiero gt.so take the ecotec and put it in the fiero gt.power to weight ratio becomes 18.77 lbs per horsepower compared with 19.84 lbs. per horsepower with the old v6.and thats assuming the hp ratings for both motors are on the up and up .in the car and driver road test it says that the 2.8 has its maximum hp at 5200 rpm.i dont think too many stock 2.8 drivers will deny that the power drops off rapidly above 4800 rpm.on the other hand the power on my ecotec stays strong right up to the 6500 redline.i also now have 5 speeds where i used to have 4.
i looked at the pics of the 2.4 and they look great but they seem expensive.also you have drive by wire to contend with and my ecm / bcm combo will not run that motor.so unless they are willing to throw in the ecm /bcm and the rest of the cars wiring harness and the ignition with the key in it ,that motor would be useless to me.it wont even run in a 2.2 cobalt without the ecm / bcm and the ignition key assembly.


I won't disagree with you on the positives of the 2.2, but is it possible that your 2.8 might not have been broken in properly? I had a 1985 Fiero GT, granted, it was a bare bones GT... but it was basically a stock 2.8 bottom end. The only thing it had was decked heads (because it had overheated at one point), that DID end up increasing the compression. It also had a 4.10:1 4-Speed from a Chevy Cavalier (originally mated to a 2.5). It did have a slightly improved exhaust, and ported exhaust manifolds... but other than that, the car was basically stock.

I ran a 14.82 at 89.3 miles an hour at Moroso Motorsports park. I bought it from a guy named John Altman who lived in Ohio. His family drove it down for me, I put 20k miles on it, and then sold it to someone who ALSO happened to live in Ohio (he flew down, and drove it back home).

When I ran it at Moroso, it had 168k miles on the bottom end!!! hahah...


I think the ecotec is great, I have one in my Solstice and know what it's capable of, but I had to defend the 2.8...

------------------
Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible (Wife's Car)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 (3.2) 5-Speed
1984 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 SE
1984 Porsche 944 5-Speed
1981 Pontiac TransAm (Olds 455BB)
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

wftb DEC 13, 03:01 PM
i also drove the same engine in the same car and there was a sizeable improvement over the motor after the rebuild .and you are right the new motor was probably going to loosen up a bit with a few more miles on it.it had a thousand miles on it when a cheap crane lifter went and chewed a lobe off the cam.the performance from the 2.8 just doesnt match the ecotec.and now that i have worked on a 2.8 i would never spend any money on one .it just has too many drawbacks ,the main one being that the oiling system is weak and with the lifter galleys being primarys ,you cant install a roller lifter and cam .i gave my 2.8 to my friend al to put into the 85 2m4 i sold him.he is buying new gm lifters and we are hoping to put the same crane model cam as i had in it.after it is broken in(again) i am going to get it dynoed to see what kind of hp it was really putting out.
in any production run of cars there is always a few that just get put together with closer tolerances in the engine and drivetrain and are just faster than the norm.you probably had one of those cars.but from reading this forum for the last 5 years i know that most unmodified 2.8 cars 1/4 mile times are usually high 15 to mid 17 seconds depending on the tranny used.