Subframe captive nut question (Page 1/2)
Gizmo0816 AUG 11, 05:30 PM

This is the drivers side spot where the captive nut is within the space frame for subframe removal. Upon me removing it the captive nut was sitting above the frame and does not have a space to reside in.


This is the passenger side, the captive is between the frame and has a spot for it to reside in.

Which side is correct? I can't imagine they should be different from each other. Being its called the captive bolt I'd guess the passenger is correct. Passenger side also looks funky tho. The spot where the space frame sits on the subframe is flat.

Its an 88.
Gizmo0816 AUG 11, 05:40 PM
Also sorry if I am spamming, I think it's make a new post for different subjects right?
fieroguru AUG 11, 07:21 PM
They all start out in better condition than the passenger side example. Eventually everything rusts or breaks completely free and you get the drivers side.
82-T/A [At Work] AUG 11, 07:35 PM
Ah man... I wish you had posted first before cutting into the frame.

You can easily get at the captive nut if you remove the rear bumper. The opening is large enough that you can even get a mig welder in there as well.

But it seems like both sides are rusted out. There's a cage that's welded on four sides, and it holds the nut in place. Easiest thing to do would probably spot-weld a nut in there.

My daughter had one break free on her 85 Fiero, and we simply tacked it to the frame with a mig welder.
Gizmo0816 AUG 11, 08:56 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

Ah man... I wish you had posted first before cutting into the frame.

You can easily get at the captive nut if you remove the rear bumper. The opening is large enough that you can even get a mig welder in there as well.

But it seems like both sides are rusted out. There's a cage that's welded on four sides, and it holds the nut in place. Easiest thing to do would probably spot-weld a nut in there.

My daughter had one break free on her 85 Fiero, and we simply tacked it to the frame with a mig welder.



I did see that you could get in there without cutting the frame, but by the time I found that out we already had the front subframe bolts out and I was just to lazy to put them back in and take the rear bumper off again.

I weld for a living though so I shouldn't have an issue closing it back up. If I do, I will be quite embarrassed. Plus this won't be the only spot she's getting welded. The front of this car is in fantastic for a PA car, but the rear got ate up and is need of a patch panel by the battery. Subframe also needs some donor steel.

I was just wondering what was going on cause I saw that the cage was there one side and the other side was completely different. Makes sense if it's just spot welded on that rust could've broken it loose. Guess I gotta look to see if that cage is in the frame still.
Gizmo0816 AUG 11, 09:31 PM

quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

They all start out in better condition than the passenger side example. Eventually everything rusts or breaks completely free and you get the drivers side.



Yeah I didn't realize that cage was spot welded on and it was confusing me. Makes sense now tho. I'm in the middle of doing some really slow rust repair, cause i'm broke and don't have all the necessary tools. Getting them as i'm going along to spread it across my paychecks better.
Next tool is an engine stand and then I figured replace the water pump, as well as the timing gears. To my knowledge it still has the original fiber gears at 130k.

I was also wondering cause I've seen a lot of debate about it which one is actually better the fiber gears or the metal gears? My biggest issue with the metal ones is I was seeing that you are supposed to drill a hole in the engine block somewhere to improve lubrication of the metal gears, if I do have to do that, I think I would rather go with the fiber gears. Modifying the engine doesn't sound like a fun time to me.
82-T/A [At Work] AUG 12, 07:36 AM

quote
Originally posted by Gizmo0816:


Yeah I didn't realize that cage was spot welded on and it was confusing me. Makes sense now tho. I'm in the middle of doing some really slow rust repair, cause i'm broke and don't have all the necessary tools. Getting them as i'm going along to spread it across my paychecks better.
Next tool is an engine stand and then I figured replace the water pump, as well as the timing gears. To my knowledge it still has the original fiber gears at 130k.

I was also wondering cause I've seen a lot of debate about it which one is actually better the fiber gears or the metal gears? My biggest issue with the metal ones is I was seeing that you are supposed to drill a hole in the engine block somewhere to improve lubrication of the metal gears, if I do have to do that, I think I would rather go with the fiber gears. Modifying the engine doesn't sound like a fun time to me.




I'm interested to know which side still had (what was left of) the cage, and which side it was totally gone. The passenger side seems to get eaten up a lot more than the driver's side. The assumption is that it's because the battery is there, but I think it's because the road salt (on the side of the road) in most North East cars tends to pack in there more than it does on the inside (driver's side).

As for the gears, my daughter went with the aluminum gear: https://www.rockauto.com/en...p?pk=4699&cc=1249196

The cam gear is aluminum, made by Cloyes, and the crank gear is steel. There is a little nub that is pressed into the block that has a hole in it that sprays oil onto the gear. This lubricates the gear and allows it to stay lubricated during the entire operation of the motor. You could make this hole a little bit bigger, but I don't think it's really all that important. It's literally spraying directly onto the gear... and it's worked this long. As long as it's spraying directly on the gear, you should have no issues. I went with a higher volume oil pump, but since you have an 88 I don't think that's an option.
Gizmo0816 AUG 12, 10:25 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I'm interested to know which side still had (what was left of) the cage, and which side it was totally gone. The passenger side seems to get eaten up a lot more than the driver's side. The assumption is that it's because the battery is there, but I think it's because the road salt (on the side of the road) in most North East cars tends to pack in there more than it does on the inside (driver's side).

As for the gears, my daughter went with the aluminum gear: https://www.rockauto.com/en...p?pk=4699&cc=1249196

The cam gear is aluminum, made by Cloyes, and the crank gear is steel. There is a little nub that is pressed into the block that has a hole in it that sprays oil onto the gear. This lubricates the gear and allows it to stay lubricated during the entire operation of the motor. You could make this hole a little bit bigger, but I don't think it's really all that important. It's literally spraying directly onto the gear... and it's worked this long. As long as it's spraying directly on the gear, you should have no issues. I went with a higher volume oil pump, but since you have an 88 I don't think that's an option.




So, ironically the side where the cage is totally missing, is the drivers, the passenger still has its cage.
The battery has the worst rusting on the space frame though, the drivers has the worst rusting on the subframe. It's not rusted out so bad the car's not worth fixing, but it's not pretty either.

Thats good to know the hole is already there, because then I'm definitely going with the metal gears.
Gizmo0816 AUG 12, 10:33 PM
Also thanks for that rockauto link, that's the best price i've seen for that cloyes set and they have the tourque converter I need, 60 bucks cheaper than what autozone wants.
I think I've been shopping at the wrong places.

[This message has been edited by Gizmo0816 (edited 08-12-2025).]

82-T/A [At Work] AUG 13, 06:45 AM

quote
Originally posted by Gizmo0816:

Also thanks for that rockauto link, that's the best price i've seen for that cloyes set and they have the tourque converter I need, 60 bucks cheaper than what autozone wants.
I think I've been shopping at the wrong places.





No problem... the thing about Rock Auto is the shipping. Make sure you buy additional stuff only where it shows the little icon of the truck next to it... that cuts down on shipping.