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| Engineering a quicker steering ratio with new Pinion gear (Page 1/1) |
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a_monkie
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DEC 11, 12:36 PM
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I found a video on Youtube, turns out in EK Civics you can swap in the steering pinion from an Integra to get a faster steering ratio. This works because the integra rack has the same size teeth, but the pinion itself has an extra tooth on it, meaning every full turn of the steering wheel moves the rack an extra tooth's worth of distance.
I don't expect that there are any pinions GM made that would fit like this(although if you know something say something). But as an Engineer I could design a new pinion and send that design off to get CNC machined.
My question is pertaining to the pinions in the 84-87 models. My understanding is that the Non-GT's were 3.5 turns lock to lock, and the GT's were 3 turns. Is the difference in these models just the pinion, or are both the rack and pinion different?
The Civic video I'm referring to: https://youtu.be/Sw1yNtnR63...G3gkmYYlKHoG6P&t=544
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82-T/A [At Work]
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DEC 11, 01:13 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by a_monkie:
I found a video on Youtube, turns out in EK Civics you can swap in the steering pinion from an Integra to get a faster steering ratio. This works because the integra rack has the same size teeth, but the pinion itself has an extra tooth on it, meaning every full turn of the steering wheel moves the rack an extra tooth's worth of distance.
I don't expect that there are any pinions GM made that would fit like this(although if you know something say something). But as an Engineer I could design a new pinion and send that design off to get CNC machined.
My question is pertaining to the pinions in the 84-87 models. My understanding is that the Non-GT's were 3.5 turns lock to lock, and the GT's were 3 turns. Is the difference in these models just the pinion, or are both the rack and pinion different?
The Civic video I'm referring to: https://youtu.be/Sw1yNtnR63...G3gkmYYlKHoG6P&t=544 |
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The steering rack you got was determined by whether or not you got the WS6 "Performance Package" ... which generally meant GTs, SEs, and Formulas... but it wasn't always like that... though if you have WS6 on your car, it's for certain...
I did a search a while back on this, and this is what I have from my notes.
1984 Models used 3.5:1 and WS6 had 3:1
1985 Models ALL came with 3:1, regardless of WS6
1986-1987 Models used 3.5:1 and WS6 had 3:1
1988 something else entirely that I don't know...
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Raydar
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DEC 11, 04:09 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
...
1988 something else entirely that I don't know... |
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88s all supposedly had the same rack and pinion. Not sure on ratios, however.
I guess I could go and count...
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olejoedad
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DEC 11, 06:38 PM
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fieroguru
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DEC 12, 07:04 AM
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Typically pinion and ring/rack gears need to be changed in pairs. Adding or removing teeth while maintaining the same pitch will increase/decrease the diameter of the pinion. To maintain proper teeth mesh between the two, the ring or pinion must change in the same fashion.
Just throwing in a different pinion gear while using the same ring/rack gear is just asking for wear/binding issues.
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82-T/A [At Work]
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DEC 12, 07:46 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by olejoedad:
3.25/1 on the 88's... |
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That's really interesting.
I had a 1984 Fiero 2m4 SE many years ago, and it had the 3:1 steering ratio. It was fantastic. Man... I loved that car, but I just had too many cars so I had to give it up. But driving around a parking lot or in traffic and stuff... I know the 2.5 was underpowered, but I could really get on it and that steering was just unbelievable. It felt so nimble and agile.
My 1987 Fiero SE / V6... the one I have in storage (my first car)... it felt more like a luxury car compared to the 84... in the way that it handled. Yeah, it definitely had a lot more power, but it had the Y99 suspension with the softer shocks and springs... and... my assumption, the 3.5:1 steering ratio. It had a MUCH wider steering ratio, and was no where near as nimble.
I've never driven an 88... just kind of shied away from them because I didn't want to get into the 1-year only stuff, so I never bought one. But I wonder what the 3.25:1 would feel like... obviously, somewhere in the middle.
The benefit of course of one over the other is harder / easier steering. My daughter has an 85, and it's tough for her to turn the steering wheel when the car is stopped... haha...
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a_monkie
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DEC 12, 01:11 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by fieroguru:
Typically pinion and ring/rack gears need to be changed in pairs. Adding or removing teeth while maintaining the same pitch will increase/decrease the diameter of the pinion. To maintain proper teeth mesh between the two, the ring or pinion must change in the same fashion.
Just throwing in a different pinion gear while using the same ring/rack gear is just asking for wear/binding issues.
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Seems to be working for the EK civic guys. I found the thread in their forums, bunch of people in there seem to have done it with no issues
https://honda-tech.com/foru...bly-ek-rack-2422762/[This message has been edited by a_monkie (edited 12-12-2024).]
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fieroguru
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DEC 12, 06:07 PM
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It is possible the bolt-on housing from those cars have a different centerline between the two versions which could allow it to work.
The Fiero doesn't have a removable housing, so the centerline will remain the same, so it won't work for our cars.
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pmbrunelle
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DEC 12, 06:55 PM
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The cost/difficulty/challenge in this project is more related to making the pinion with its low-tooth-count helical shape, requiring a gear hob and a machine shop which is set up to hob gears.
A new rack is going to be relatively cheap/simple to execute, much more simple than a new housing.
Cutting the flat tooth faces of a rack is more within the reach of any general machine shop. The raw material of the rack itself (i.e. the steel rod) is cheap to buy.
| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
My daughter has an 85, and it's tough for her to turn the steering wheel when the car is stopped... haha... |
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Power steering enables drivers to turn the wheels when stopped, so they learn that bad habit... it's probably a good thing to learn driving with manual steering to get the feel of things.
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Dennis LaGrua
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DEC 14, 09:55 AM
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IMO, the steering ratio is directly proportional to the amount of bump steer that the model will have. I've also found that by not matching front to rear sway bar size/rates will cause over-steer. Its a tricky subject and most likely there is a formula that I am not aware of, so trial and error has been the solution here. ------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
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