Fiero Belly Pans? (Page 1/2)
Additivewalnut FEB 08, 01:17 PM
There are a couple posts about belly pans from people wanting to make it more aerodynamic and faster and whatever, I'm more concerned about protecting everything. I live in STL, which has.... roads, if you could call them that. And lots of salt. My car is lowered for autocross handling purposes and it's not worth bringing the ride height up every other time I want to drive it. Would there be any downside to putting a belly pan on to cover up the gas tank, fuel lines, brake lines, and the such? I don't care about the front bit with the radiator so much, and I know you can't cover up the bottom of the cradle since that's how it cools the engine bay down.... unless you can cover parts of it. My goal would be protection from both rust and massive pieces of asphalt that I may have overlooked.
82-T/A [At Work] FEB 08, 02:34 PM

quote
Originally posted by Additivewalnut:

There are a couple posts about belly pans from people wanting to make it more aerodynamic and faster and whatever, I'm more concerned about protecting everything. I live in STL, which has.... roads, if you could call them that. And lots of salt. My car is lowered for autocross handling purposes and it's not worth bringing the ride height up every other time I want to drive it. Would there be any downside to putting a belly pan on to cover up the gas tank, fuel lines, brake lines, and the such? I don't care about the front bit with the radiator so much, and I know you can't cover up the bottom of the cradle since that's how it cools the engine bay down.... unless you can cover parts of it. My goal would be protection from both rust and massive pieces of asphalt that I may have overlooked.



I think the bigger problem would potentially be the rust it causes as a result of moisture and water getting trapped in there. But it certainly wouldn't do any harm to have something that started in the front tire well / footwell area, and curved down covering the entire bottom to protect the brake / A/C / heater / coolant lines and fuel tank.
1985 Fiero GT FEB 08, 03:00 PM

quote
Originally posted by Additivewalnut:

There are a couple posts about belly pans from people wanting to make it more aerodynamic and faster and whatever, I'm more concerned about protecting everything. I live in STL, which has.... roads, if you could call them that. And lots of salt. My car is lowered for autocross handling purposes and it's not worth bringing the ride height up every other time I want to drive it. Would there be any downside to putting a belly pan on to cover up the gas tank, fuel lines, brake lines, and the such? I don't care about the front bit with the radiator so much, and I know you can't cover up the bottom of the cradle since that's how it cools the engine bay down.... unless you can cover parts of it. My goal would be protection from both rust and massive pieces of asphalt that I may have overlooked.



Yeah, if your looking to protect from stones and debris, that's a good idea, but if your looking to protect from rust, it will cause more problems then not having it, as salt, snow and water will inevitably get everywhere, period. Having a barrier will just trap stuff between it and the frame, and make washing harder, if you want to protect from rust, the best way is to not drive the car. If it must be driven, wash it after every drive paying special attention to spraying clean water at all the panel gaps and a lot of time washing underneath. Along with that you can paint the underside, and or use some undercoating product (the ogre probably has more and better recommendations on undercoating). Basically if you drive it in the salt, it will die a death of rust, whether that's after 1 winter or 20, unless you are meticulous on cleaning every crack and crevice, and repairing (sanding down and repainting) any surface rust that starts. It is fairly easy to find a beater car, for under $1000, that you can drive for a winter and not worry about parts (other then zip ties and duct tape lol), rust, anything, if you get a good one, you might get a few winters out of it, but it is well worth it to keep from driving the Fiero in salt, as once rust gets started, it won't stop until the car is in a junkyard unless major expensive work is done (Fiero Kyle's recent videos).
Additivewalnut FEB 08, 03:16 PM

quote
Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT:

it is well worth it to keep from driving the Fiero in salt, as once rust gets started, it won't stop until the car is in a junkyard unless major expensive work is done (Fiero Kyle's recent videos).



yeah, that's the part that sucks. I've been driving it this winter since I just got done building it and I wanna enjoy it, damnit. It was my grandpa's daily driver for 111k miles and the rust is pretty well nonexistent despite him driving in Illinois winters. Maybe I should get it undercoated. And put a belly pan on the gas tank for protection purposes
Additivewalnut FEB 08, 03:17 PM
okay rust prevention is NOT it. That makes sense. So for protection purposes only, what would be the best way to go about making a belly pan? 16g sheet metal and just cut it to fit, throw some self tappers in it and call it a week?
theogre FEB 08, 08:36 PM
For all In Very Short version... Under Coating have Huge Books of issues & problems...

Most if not all Under Coating Causes more "Rust" (Not just Iron Rust) in the end.
Why?
Ziebart & their Franchisees was (in)famous Under Coating "Service" w/ big problems & resulting lawsuits but all aftermarket coating included ones Car Dealer sold have same problems. And This is Ignoring Morons that spray U-coat on everything like driveshafts.
Worse & ⚠️ Warning: They claim all has a "warranty" but they will find any reason to Void that doc & you not only out U-coating cost but cost to Fix whatever that's rotted or even junk the vehicle before car loan is done because what is rotted.

Because when polluted water finds any small gaps in the coating will eat the metal & spread out fast because the coating keeps water & crap in it on the metal way more hours if dries @ all. Plus many U-Coat installers "cut corners" & little or no coat inside of hollow spaces &/or coating often block drain holes making the vehicle to rot out literally meaning rots from inside out. This problem, U-coat or not, is why many people hit metal w/ smallish hammer before jacking etc because may look ok to you rust inside makes any frame section very thin & when jacking etc can the jack goes thru whatever or drop a car on you.

And while you get Salt & other ice melt products in Winter... They take Time & Rain after Winter to Never go away in many places. Is why you see Snake Grass & other Salt Tolerate plants in Upstate NY & more that should only see near ocean & salt flats. So iffy U-coat, Belly pan & whatever attachments can make a lot of places where the body will "rust" fast even when drive "only in summer" in a lot of places. Plus any dried "Salt" on the car will reactivate just from moisture in the air. Salt is bad but Calcium Chloride is even worse of this & why sold as "Dehumidifier" for other uses.
theogre FEB 08, 08:53 PM
As to "belly pans..."

Note that Many OE plastic or metal "belly pans" on SUV & trucks are only "dress up" items that do little to Nothing to prevent bottoming damage. Many car makers claim helps MPG but only on Paper to get a tiny fraction of added CAFE Points to meet US EPA & other "Green" rules worldwide.
Some "pans" are to control air flow like Many Fiero w/ plastic panel low behind the front fascia.

Sadly adding this to cars often won't help & make more problem. Worse, can Fail during bottoming the vehicle & that can cut/crush lines & more because made & installed poorly at best. Example: light or medium sheet stock can get sharp edges or peel/crushes when it fails cutting brake lines or hurt other trying to jack or tow your car.

Plus you're Very Tight on Road Clearance w/ a Lowered car & will Bottom More w/ a pan.
Say you try to put flat pan... you have to put spacers etc because Fiero bottom is anything but Flat so you're adding metal thickness but also likely have 1/4", 1/2" or more air gap between your pan & the rest of car. Plus Head of screws if the flat pan just has holes to attach. So if Lowest Point is 3" now, w/ a pan be @ ~ 2.5 or likely < that above on flat surface. Even before you hit pot holes etc... Many roads are Not flat surfaces because of design &/or wear. Example: many 2 or more lane roads have crowning to shed rain & middle lanes can get high center as top of crown so normal clearance is 3" but in such lanes clearance is now much less then even less clearance w/ a DIY pan.

Also depending how you install that, may cause over heating or even fires as can interfere w/ air flow thru the rad, air to cool the cat & rest of exhaust, etc.
If had to go to a shop, Many can refuse to work or Bill you for a lot of extra labor if other problem(s) involve the pan.
Stingray92 FEB 08, 09:39 PM
I agree with a lot of Ogre's comments regarding belly pans, covers, etc. Or whatever else they want to market them as.

Any bare steel/iron will rust no matter how well you try to protect it eventually. Low ground clearance gives opportunity for debris to knock off the coating/create nicks in it. Even some of this waxed crap they put onto frames nowadays doesn't last a year.

Plates are more for protection from impacts vs rust prevention. Do a good thorough cleaning to get the junk off. Keep it dry, and remember if you spray on an adhesive it adds weight and only covers as good as was applied to.

I hear you in the rust belt and that's part of it I
theogre FEB 09, 09:51 AM
Some Easy rust protection methods:

For wires bolted to frame, engine, etc... use some silicon or permatex green label brake grease to "lube" the joints. Either is plastic safe & permatex won't run even w/ engine heating them directly.

For minor damage like lower car bottom on speed bumps, apply any spray oil should work for the short term. Longer term but likely still not permanent is Fluid Film, thin layer of Cosmoline but any grease type holds dirt & worse & gets messy fast.

Even if Fluid Film et al is "permanent" to use it normally, lower car bottoming again just removed that in milliseconds.
sleek fiero FEB 09, 10:48 AM
Maybe you would be better off buying a sacrificial "winter beater" and keep your irreplaceable Fiero off the salty roads. This is what I have done for 30 years and mine is still pristeen. My last one was a 2008 chev Aveo that cost me $2000 and I sold it in the spring for $3500 . Not bad economics sleek