Bringing a 88 Fiero Back to Life with a LFX Swap (Page 6/15)
MikesFirstFiero NOV 06, 07:10 PM
Time to catch up with the last couple of weeks. With it running I decided to mount the trunk lid and check for interference. The throttle body looks very high. With the hinges on there was some when I lowered the lid to about 1" from closed. Hmmm, Seems there is a hard stop and the front of the lid pushes up too. The hard stop turned out to be the attachments for the vents on the strut mounting rings are directional. Who would'da thought. That problem was solved by swapping them. The other problem of the lid lifting at the front was some interference for sure. I mounted some cardboard where I thought it was coming from and lowered the lid again. But the cardboard was not dented. Then I noticed there were scratches on the front cross bar of the lid, it was hitting the very top of the TB actuator. A quick set of cuts with the angle grinder and problem solved. I was amazed that that was the only interference since the engine looks very tall.



I'll make it look better when I do the body work next spring


With the lid in place it was time to figure out how to hold the lid open. I didn't like the prior gas strut since it didn't open the lid open very far. So I cut down a lid torsion bar and uses it as a prop rod. A small hole cut in the frame gave a place for the bottom to go.



It's time to turn to putting the interior back together but first the wiring needs to be finished inside the car. Some if the wiring was temporary and needed to be re-routed or lengthened. The interior Impala fuse block needed to go away, the answer was to use fuses in the engine bay that were no longer needed (power windows, door locks, and so on). Remapping the fuses and wiring everything took 3 days. By being methodical it all swapped over with no errors. There was lots of room in the bottom of the fuse block to connect the fuses to the new wiring.

The power wiring rat's nest to be deleted


This fuse box is big but has worked out very well.


Also time to clean up some if the engine bay wiring too. Much more to come.


I added some sound deadening to the front of the firewall, on the sides of the tunnel and inder the seats, same stuff as in the engine bay & trunk. Then the original carpets went back in.


The under the seat cushion material was very bad so my wife hand stiched some nomex cloth to the seat bottom carpeting. I then stretched it and wired it to the seat frame with a piece of piano wire to distribute the load on the fabric.


With the console positioned I tried to figure out where to mount the Impala immobilizer coil making it look good and not interfere with anything else. This coil must be very close to the key or the engine will not start. You press the key and the immobilizer talks to the key Which then talks to the BCU that talks to the ECU that talks to the ECU and finally powers the ignition power and starter selenoid. Putting it in place of the instrument panel dimmer would work, but that also controls the interior lights; putting it below the radio in the console would also work but be ugly. Finally decided to mount it where the old OBD plug was located next to the cigar lighter. The mount is made from acrylic that is glued to the skeleton. The immobolizer ring is cable-tied into place with the key inserted in a slot cut into the plastic cover plate. Insert the key, step on the brake and push the button and it starts.



The console is now taking shape with the Fiero gear shift indicator replace by the Impala one. It's LED that are white except for the gear you are in, which is orange. Getting it to fit was another day and a half project that required lots of modifiiction to the Fiero trim. Notice it reads PRNDM. The top of the shift knob has the + / - switch.



The radio was replaced with a double-DIN radio/display that talks to my backup camera and to my iPhone. Now I have moving maps, can play audio files and the other AirPlay functions via a USB cable. the radio was about $300 and fit without too much difficulty since it is Fiero-sized (small)

Crappy photo but you get the idea.


It's been driven a few times since the last photos were taken. I think I've got a fuel pressure issue that prevents going to full throttle. I suspect the fuel pump fitting that fed the Impala siphon has come loose and is causing the pressure to drop. For running around town and moderate acceleration it's just fine but it simply won't run at full throttle over about 5000 RPM. It was doing well and the next time I drove it this cropped up. I'll put my OBD-2 scanner on it and get some real-time data. We have had really wet weather here and with all the rain I drive pretty carefully so I don't put it in a ditch, which we have lots of.

Now that it is running and can live outside I've met my deadline and spent a week cleaning and rearranging the garage. I've even figured out how to have a shop and keep both cars in the insulated garage for the winter. Next things to do are to check the fuel pump, install the inner fender liners, continue cleaning up the engine bay wiring and get the key cover plate cut.

[This message has been edited by MikesFirstFiero (edited 11-07-2021).]

MikesFirstFiero NOV 23, 03:06 AM
Now that the car is running I've had to turn my attention to other work around the house that was ignored since about April. The auto workshop has been reverted to a woodworking shop, but smaller. This allows both cars to park in the garage and have room to still have a useful shop area. When I need to work on either car one can be parked outside and there is plenty of room. The Venza needs it's ATF replaced. Toyota says for "life" but I don't believe it. So with 80K miles it is getting replaced next week.

The Fiero has accumulated about 250 miles in the last 3 weeks. I've driven it over to North Spokane, an 80 mile round trip. Have not solved the fuel issue yet but I hooked up my OBD2 unit and can see a FP that ranges from 43 to 56 PSI. The chassis controller module uses PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) to control the FP output pressure. With it going up to 56 PSI I'm thinking the pump is not the cause. I'll run it more and see what DTCs show up. Driven moderately it runs well. My first fuel top-up shows the fuel economy to be about 25 MPG overall. Not too bad since I enjoy quick acceleration too much and have been giving rides to my gear-head friends (one has a hot rod F350, another a 427 Vette and another has a Factory 5 Cobra project going). The manual shift on the shift knob works very well. Shifting gears is quick so it feels responsive. If you down shift it even blips the throttle.

Another thing that is a surprise is with it being winter I don't need the cooling fan to operate. Even around town it does not overheat at the traffic lights. Only a slight increase over what it is with the fan running. I'm thinking this engine in normal driving burns less fuel and thus creates less heat to be rejected by the radiator. Even though the radiator is Fiero sized (It's a 3-row aftermarket one put in by the prior owner) it seems to be just fine even though it's half the area of the Impala one. And the heater now works, taking only about 3-4 minutes to get hot. On full hot it is overwhelming and needs only to be set about in the middle of the temp range. But it's only about 32F right now in the mornings.

I've got a laundry list of things to do to prep it for winter driving: oil change & filter, install winter wheels & snow tires (and go back to stock rotors). install inner wheel wells, add a retainer so the shift cable does not come loose (only happened once), Hook the cooling fan to the Impala ECU, put the trunk liner back in after cutting it to fit the new depth, get the reverse lights to work so my backup camera work too, finish the interior plastic bits that need to be painted and/or modified. But first comes finishing a present for grand daughter. Have a nice Thanksgiving guys.
reinhart NOV 23, 06:35 AM

quote
Originally posted by MikesFirstFiero:
Another thing that is a surprise is with it being winter I don't need the cooling fan to operate. Even around town it does not overheat at the traffic lights. Only a slight increase over what it is with the fan running. I'm thinking this engine in normal driving burns less fuel and thus creates less heat to be rejected by the radiator. Even though the radiator is Fiero sized (It's a 3-row aftermarket one put in by the prior owner) it seems to be just fine even though it's half the area of the Impala one. And the heater now works, taking only about 3-4 minutes to get hot. On full hot it is overwhelming and needs only to be set about in the middle of the temp range. But it's only about 32F right now in the mornings.
.



A few things the Fiero has going for it that the Impala doesn't.The Fiero radiator is on the opposite side of the car as the engine so it doesn't get heated up by the hot air coming off the engine. The coolant capacity is probably 2.5 times greater. The heat not only radiates from the radiator but to some small extent also radiates through the plumbing along the car.The metal pipes by the rocker panels for instance add 20 feet of plumbing with the heat from the pipes being transferred to the surrounding air as well as the clamps and metal frame attachmrnts, thus dissipating some of the heat.
Will NOV 23, 09:17 AM

quote
Originally posted by MikesFirstFiero:

Have not solved the fuel issue yet but I hooked up my OBD2 unit and can see a FP that ranges from 43 to 56 PSI. The chassis controller module uses PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) to control the FP output pressure. With it going up to 56 PSI I'm thinking the pump is not the cause. I'll run it more and see what DTCs show up.



You're running the body control module with its PWM output?
Or do you have a Fiero-style regulated fuel pressure, referenced to manifold pressure?
Blacktree NOV 23, 11:10 AM
Wow, that is some amazing progress!

Now I want to put one of these in my BMW.
MikesFirstFiero NOV 23, 12:01 PM
Thats s good point that the plumbing system has lots of losses getting from the engine to the radiator and back. I'll have the fan hooked up by spring and I'll see how often it turns on. I'm putting in Archies hood vent too.

The fuel system is complete Impala with the ECM, BCM and CCM all talking over a CanBus. The only real change is the pressure regulator and fuel return is now external in a Corvette fuel filter rather than in the tank as part of the pump assembly. Another thing I'll look at is the exhaust tips. The muffler exhaust pipes are 2.25 which reduces to about 1.5" at the resonator tips. Maybe increased back pressure? The Impala mufflers were a 26" long glasspack and two big chambered cans with not much restriction.

Notice the restriction where the front & rear bank pipes join. Thats the only real restriction in the entire Impala exhaust. I cut it out when I used parts of this pipe to join up with the Camaro muffler.


The Impala rear mufflers are big and heavy lumps.


I weighed the car the other day this conversion increased the weight from 2750 to 2860. I find the steering to be more neutral but haven't really wrung it out yet, just some larger roundabouts (the new WA-290 one going to ID-53 has all tires howling). Even though the differential is open, with the stock Fiero rear anti-roll bar added, the car no longer lifts the inside rear wheel when hard cornering. I'm sure adding the bar has also helped reduce the understeer too.

For a BMW I'd look at the Camaro version of this engine. There has been a lot of work done in stuffing that into Miatas.

[This message has been edited by MikesFirstFiero (edited 11-23-2021).]

Blacktree NOV 23, 06:31 PM
I'm willing to bet most of your car's weigh gain was the transmission. That 6T70 is a hefty unit... about twice as heavy as a stock Fiero gearbox. But aside from that, it's better in every way.

For the Bimmer, I'd definitely get the RWD variant. I may end up getting the LY7 instead of the LFX, to make things a little easier.

Anyway, I don't want to derail your thread. So let's talk about this cool project.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 11-23-2021).]

Will NOV 24, 09:24 AM

quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

For the Bimmer, I'd definitely get the RWD variant. I may end up getting the LY7 instead of the LFX, to make things a little easier.




The port injected engine gives up a bunch of power to the direct injected engine.

I'm thinking that an LLT with long tube headers could out perform an LFX which can never have headers... Beyond that, newer and higher tech is better. ...Until it comes to the unhackable C8 Corvette network architecture.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-24-2021).]

Blacktree NOV 24, 10:30 AM

quote
Originally posted by Will: The port injected engine gives up a bunch of power to the direct injected engine.


That's true. But I have no experience with DI. Part of the plan is to add a turbo, and run it on E85. I'm not sure how much of a hassle that will be with a DI fuel system.
MikesFirstFiero NOV 24, 10:54 AM
Some versions of the LFX are E85 capable and have a fuel composition sensor to adjust the fuel flow, so that is possible for the DI engine. The use of a turbo may take some serious modification of the ECU parameters too. One good thing about the LFX is the single exhaust per bank makes adding a small turbo on each bank simpler to plumb. Or try to find a Caddy LF3 (420HP). Don't know if it is E85 capable. For my purposes 300 HP is a good number for combined performance and economy. Driving anything with 10 pounds per HP is going to maked you smile.

And yes the 6T70 is large and heavy. But the second generation seems to have worked out the bugs of the earlier ones. It does a credible job of shifting up and down crisply and quickly when you push the shift button. So that worked for me. I'm not so sure the extra 100 pounds in the middle of the car is such a bad thing since the handling does not seem to be adversly affected. Having driven an Alfa with a Selespeed for years was fun and made city traffic much more pleasant than having a clutch.

[This message has been edited by MikesFirstFiero (edited 11-24-2021).]