Supernatural 3400 Roller cam? (Page 1/4)
La fiera APR 18, 09:28 PM
Today I became the proud owner of a 3400 GM V6. I really purchased it for R&D porpuses. It'll be the test bed for mechanical roller cam profiles, stroker cranks and aluminum heads testing. Since I don't have sponsors or patrons to throw money for R&D it'll take me a while to develop it and like with the Supernatural 3.4L and 3.7L, I'll give you jst enough info on the build for you to make assumtions since no one is contributing. The 3.4L learing experice really gave me ideas where to exploit this 3400 improved block to make even more power efficiently.


PS. I hope Armaggedon doesn't come before I finish this one.
Blacktree APR 19, 12:30 PM
I'm eager to see what you can do with a Gen3 engine. The power potential should be a bit higher than the older ones.

Edit to add: Maybe try a crowd-funding campaign? I'd toss a few bucks into the pot.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 04-19-2021).]

Will APR 19, 01:02 PM

quote
Originally posted by La fiera:

Today I became the proud owner of a 3400 GM V6. I really purchased it for R&D purposes. It'll be the test bed for mechanical roller cam profiles, stroker cranks and aluminum heads testing. Since I don't have sponsors or patrons to throw money for R&D it'll take me a while to develop it and like with the Supernatural 3.4L and 3.7L, I'll give you just enough info on the build for you to make assumptions since no one is contributing. The 3.4L learning experience really gave me ideas where to exploit this 3400 improved block to make even more power efficiently.


PS. I hope Armaggedon doesn't come before I finish this one.



3.4's & 3400's have a 92mm bore.
LX9 3500's have 94mm bores, but still fit iron heads... if you don't want to go all the way to the aluminum heads, the LX9 block could build the biggest engine.
Also, from *I think* the LX9 on, GM bumped the rod journal size up to 2.250" to match the 4.3 v6. This means that the crank could be offset ground down to 2.100 or even 2.000 to stroke it. Joseph Upson did that on his 3900 build. However, GM might not have done this until the LZ4/LZ9 engines came out.
Some LX9's had forged cranks. I think all of them used the LS style 24x crank wheel.
All the LZ4/LZ9's use the 58x crank wheel.

Are you working with www.wot-tech.com on any parts?

What else you have under the bags?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-19-2021).]

La fiera APR 19, 06:47 PM

quote
Originally posted by Will:

Are you working with www.wot-tech.com on any parts?

What else you have under the bags?




No, I'm doing all R&D and parts by myself. I have a local cam grinder which I've used for years. I also have a piston guy which does all my custom pistons. Recently I found a local operation that build CNC heads and intakes for NHRA teams and he is willing to help me design and make an improved aluminum head with the intake and exhaust pattern of the iron heads.
To be cost efficient I have to get 7 sets of heads done and that'll cost me $10,000. I wanted to make one set for me only so I can do some testing but it'll be too expensive for only two.
If I knew I could sell a few sets I'd get them so I can keep 2 sets for me and sell the rest.
Under the bags from left to right; The 3.4L I took out of my car, 383 stroker SBC for a customer and a 1.6L Ecoboost with forged internals for another customer.
Blacktree APR 20, 12:29 PM
Those custom heads sound interesting. If they could be made to flow as well as the Gen3 heads, you might be onto something.
ericjon262 APR 20, 05:56 PM
the LX9 has larger journals, I forget the exact measurements, but IIRC, they're the same as the 3800.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

La fiera APR 20, 10:09 PM

quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

the LX9 has larger journals, I forget the exact measurements, but IIRC, they're the same as the 3800.




Stroke is not what I'm after, dinamic displacement is, and I'm testing that with the Supernatural 3.7
ericjon262 APR 21, 01:34 AM

quote
Originally posted by La fiera:


Stroke is not what I'm after, dinamic displacement is, and I'm testing that with the Supernatural 3.7



journal diameter =/= stroke. the diameter is important to know because it helps select a connecting rod that will fit the rest of the engine/ build. I have set of pistons here in my garage for 3500, that are designed around a 3800 connecting rod, minimizing expenses for custom parts.

I can't remember for sure which rods I have, but they're either these:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-5967b3d

or these:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-6300v3d

now, it's important to understand, these rods are more narrow than stock 3500 rods, thus bearings will be smaller, and film load higher.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

Will APR 21, 01:48 PM
I had mentioned offset grinding for more stroke.

I don't think a 6.300 rod will fit in the V6/60... at least not with the 84mm stroke. It might just barely work with the 76mm stroke.
Narrower than V6/60 rods? That's pretty narrow, since the V6/60's are already narrower than SBC rods.
La fiera APR 21, 08:32 PM

quote
Originally posted by Will:

I had mentioned offset grinding for more stroke.

I don't think a 6.300 rod will fit in the V6/60... at least not with the 84mm stroke. It might just barely work with the 76mm stroke.
Narrower than V6/60 rods? That's pretty narrow, since the V6/60's are already narrower than SBC rods.



I have the rotating assambly already on the works. 6.125 rods weighting 525g each and the pistons as you imagine are very short and light. It'll be the same engine displacement but the geometry of the bottom end will be different so a cam revision will be required (I already have it). Also the intake manifold is being finished right now. The debate I have now is if to use the 3400 or the 3.4L block I have time to think.


On the left is the A beam 6.125' (525g) rod and the right is the H beam 5.400' (654g) of the current 3.7L in the car now. The longer rod has a smaller piston pin and smaller rod journal then stock. The longer rod will have more peak and top end power and the power delivery will be linear but the short rod will be explosive off the corners and low to mid acceleration. Of course that is matching both systems with their respective cam and intake needs.

PS. WOT or ZZP don't operate like me because they want to make money and I do it for fun.

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 04-21-2021).]