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| 60 degree block question (Page 1/1) |
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Coolkoolpyle
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APR 14, 03:43 PM
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There is very little technical information online about the different generations of the 60 degree block.
Will the third generation 3.4 accept the large valve Camaro
iron heads and flat tappet camshafts?
I thought all the front wheel drive blocks were the essentially the same with the third gen having a roller type camshaft. Is this wrong?
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Dennis LaGrua
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APR 14, 04:42 PM
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AFAIK, the GM 3.4L engine family has quite a few variations. I believe that the bores and heads were different. The gen III was the 3.1L /3100/3400 family. The highest power versions put out 185 HP. If you are interested in this engine for a swap I would just start with the 3400 and upgrade the cam. ------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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Will
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APR 14, 06:37 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Coolkoolpyle:
There is very little technical information online about the different generations of the 60 degree block.
Will the third generation 3.4 accept the large valve Camaro
iron heads and flat tappet camshafts?
I thought all the front wheel drive blocks were the essentially the same with the third gen having a roller type camshaft. Is this wrong?
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There are always incremental improvements from one generation to the next, so the blocks aren't the same, but the parts are interchangeable. I'm not sure if the 3400 block would take a flat tappet cam... also not sure why you'd want to unless your application requires an extremely aggressive cam.
All the 3.4s have the same bore and stroke. All the roller cam blocks were for FWD use and have starter pad on the left. All the factory iron head 3.4's were RWD and have the starter pad on the right.
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Coolkoolpyle
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APR 14, 08:35 PM
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To clarify
I’m using a early style supercharger kit originally designed for the 60 degree Camaro on a front wheel drive style engine in a Fiero.
So I have to keep the iron head due to the port configuration built into my manifold.
I have a custom piston built for the chamber size and boost.
I’m trying to get more cubes that’s all
I have a super sniper kit with a 50hp dry nitrous kit and with the 2.8 in the car now it’s already fast as hell.
So to simply get a little more I’m just going with a bigger bore/stroke.
I have the blower cam in the 2.8 and to my understanding the roller cam is ground for a different valve arrangement and will not work with my iron heads.
So I’m hoping I can keep the cam and use custom pushrods.
I just need to know if this combination will physically bolt together.
The 3.4 I have looks very different from the 2.8 as it’s got a different type of head entirely with a different valve cover design and a offset water pump.
It’s out of a Chevy venture mini van.
And from what I can find online it’s a third generation fed block.
I have the jig to relocate the starter to the Fiero side of the block
but
I’m about to take it apart and decided asking was far better than wasting my time if the block is too different to use.
I’ll just go get a earlier version I know will work.
If I can use it I would like to because the ribbing on the block and other inner changes designed to stiffen the casting.
And oiling system improvements.
I’ve been running it on the 2.8
It’s a b&m kit made in the 90s for the Firebird and Camaro.
It was modified to be used on a fwd 60 degree by shortening the snout and running it directly off the ribbed style accessory belt.
It required an additional idler pulley and a reroute of the belt but otherwise it functions as intended producing a peak boost of 8lbs.It
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fierosound
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APR 15, 09:52 AM
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La fiera
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APR 15, 10:13 AM
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If you decide to use the roller block with your iron heads I can make you a roller cam specifially made for your combo. Just need to know some info about your engine and at what range you want it to perform.
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Will
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APR 15, 10:46 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Coolkoolpyle:
So I have to keep the iron head due to the port configuration built into my manifold.
I have a custom piston built for the chamber size and boost.
I’m trying to get more cubes that’s all
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You can drop iron heads onto an LX9 3500 block if you're looking for max cubes.
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Blacktree
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APR 16, 02:22 AM
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The iron heads will fit on the gen3 block with no problem. The combustion chambers in the iron heads are almost twice the volume of the gen3 heads. So you'll need different pistons. But it looks like you're doing that. Regarding the camshaft, I'm not sure. But the cylinder spacing, firing order, etc are the same. So if the cam fits in the journals, it should be fine. The lifters are the same diameter, so the flat-tappet ones should drop right in.
Side note: You shouldn't need to relocate the starter on the 3400 V6. It should already be in the correct location.[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 04-16-2021).]
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Coolkoolpyle
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APR 17, 02:06 PM
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Thank you for all the information
There is so little available on the 60 degree engine family which is surprising since so many were made.
With such a common motor and so many variations produced they are kinda the small block Chevy of the v6 world.
With a production run of over 30 years it just boggles my mind that so few products are available.
The low performance of this engine family is primarily due to the lack of interest by manufacturers.
The heads will in most cases easily support 1.5 hp per cubic inch and exceptional gains could be achieved with nothing more than some parts designed around the improvement of intake and exhaust flow.
60 degrees in a v6 has significant advantages concerning the physics in play during operation of the cylinder arrangement.
Stroker cranks and big bore blocks could easily push this design into the realm of high performance and make this engine family far more desirable for use in many classes of racing and upgrades and engine swaps into cars not suited to V8s.
Such a shame from a hot roders perspective.
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Blacktree
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APR 17, 04:21 PM
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The 60-degree V6 used to have a healthy aftermarket. It was never as popular as the SBC, but there were plenty of parts to choose from. Over the last 10-15 years, the aftermarket dried up. People have moved on, and the vendors followed.
To put things in perspective, the newest version of the 60-degree V6 (called the High Feature V6) makes about double the power of the older versions. For example, the 3.6 liter V6 in the newer Camaro makes over 300 HP from the factory. It has aluminum block and heads, dual overhead cams, direct injection, etc. And it weighs about the same as a 2.8 in a Fiero. That may explain why people have moved on.
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