Resurrecting '88 Formula and need to pass CA emissions/smog check (Page 1/4)
statue4 OCT 30, 11:38 AM
Hi,
I recently picked up a 1988 2.8L Formula and am trying to make it into my daily driver. I got the gas tank cleaned out by a radiator shop and replaced the entire fuel system from the strainer to the injectors to get the car running. Once the new injectors were in it would run, but idle at 3000. So i replaced the EGR tube and that was solved, but it sill is a slightly erratic idle. Sometimes idles at 1000, sometimes at 2000, frequently somewhere in the middle with 200rpm fluctuations. I cleaned out the IAC, but will probably just buy a new one and repalce it today. Should I throw another $50 at it and get a new MAP while I'm at it? With these items is it critical to get AC Delco, or does it not matter? The only reason I ask is because the last car I had of this era (I usually drive older, non-electronic cars) was a 1994 Grand Cherokee and it was really fussy about non-Mopar sensors.
I would like to get this thing legal ASAP. I moved to California a year ago and the last car I bought in CA is pre-1975 smog exempt, so this is my first enounter with the California procedures. I'm from Colorado and there they will give you a temporary tag good for 60 days or something to get your emissions all sorted after getting a used car. California will only give you a one day pass, so I have to take the metro 2 hours each way to work until I get this Fiero on the road. I took it in for a test yesterday and failed on:
-fuel cap
-ignition timing
-fuel evaporative controls
-15mph hydrocarbons emissions
For fuel cap I'm guessing all they want me to do is buy a new one. I've set ignition timing plenty of times before, but my timing light is back in Colorado so if anyone knows of a decent shop that'll just do it real quick for me near Long Beach that'd be cool. Or if anyone in the LA area has a timing light I could either borrow or buy from you let me know. For the fuel evaporative controls what I'm guesing is when I reinstalled the gas tank I don't think I got the vent hose connected very well. Does that soud like a likely cause? Im okay with having to drop the tank again because I need to check my fuel sender wires. I replaced it, but think the wires in the tank got loose during the install. I'd rather not have to replace the cat, so are there any tips for lowering the HC emissions count? My reading was 89 and the limit is 83ppm.
Thanks for the help!
skywurz OCT 30, 12:45 PM
Ok so in CA they pump our gas tanks full of nitrogen on pre 95 cars and see if the system leaks. It seems that your fuel system has a leak. That's the fuel evap fail. Its not the lines but the breather system. possibly the fuel pump oring and or the line that goes to the charcoal.

For erratic idle check your vacuum lines. If you have not replaced the rubber in 5 years do it they are cheap.

The high HC could be as simple as the timing issue. Probably drop down with non leaking vacuum and timing.

You can rent a timing gun from auto zone

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 10-30-2020).]

theogre OCT 30, 09:01 PM
EVAP test for old cars are 2 steps...
Cap in correct test adapter will seal. Fail then buy a new Stant cap.
Correct test adapter will replace the cap to test the car. The test will pressurize the tank often < 1 PSI (So low they often use Inches of Water to measure.) and stop and watch for X time.

The one the Gross is likely second part.
Can Fail for an air/fumes leak anywhere in the tank, vent lines, fill pipe, etc.
Even a hard vent hose to EVAP "can" can Fail because hard hose won't seal when is "clamped" to test.
Fail means Replace big vent hose on the "can" w/ new Fuel Hose. Then take to a shop w/ smoke tester to look for leaks elsewhere.

Correct and Good Test Adapters is very important. Wrong or worn/damaged items may seem to fit but fail to seal. Example: The "clamp" pliers can wear and hard to seal even w/ new hoses. If possible get tested in another facility if Fail again. Do Not tell the Inspector the equipment may have issues.

Fail Ignition timing is likely related to Failing Sniffer test at low speed. Fix timing.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

statue4 NOV 08, 08:56 PM
I was able to get a 30 day temp tag. Yay. I am slowing trying to get this all sorted. I have not yet addresed the Evap problem. The hoses going to the Evap can all look fine, but should I replace them anyways? One day I was driving and it would drive, but not idle. I replaced the IAC and MAP and that fixed it. I still can't get the dang thing to idle slower. 10% of the time it will idle at 1000rpm, but most of the time it sits around 1500. I'll keep hunting down vacuum leaks, I guess. I picked up a timing light at Harbor Frieght and checked the timing. It was right at 10 degrees! I don't know why he said it was out of spec. To check it I jumped the bottom left two leads in the computer connector thing and started the engine. Is this correct?
skywurz NOV 08, 10:42 PM
Some times the techs are just awful. One time i had a tech fail me for not being able to figure out how to check the timing on my fixed timing tech-4. The other issue i have is; unless its run 1 gear higher than the smog machine tells them to. it fails due to some speed rpm mismatch.
theogre NOV 09, 04:42 AM
Sometimes the timing marks have problems because outer ring on balancer moves as rubber "rots" etc.
So marks might say 10° but isn't true and advance timing can make Idle problems on top of vac leaks etc.

EVAP rubber can get hard and fuel vent hose won't seal when tested w/ "clamp pliers." Small line hard won't matter.
Replace big line at EVAP can then smoke test as above.
statue4 NOV 30, 07:48 PM
Took it in for a second test today. I had dropped the tank and made sure the evap line was attached securely, replaced the spark plugs and distributor cap. My high idle was coming from the gasket between the EGR valve and EGR tube. It had been a fresh gasket that came with the new braided EGR tube from the Fiero Store, but I replaced it anyways and there is STILL a vacuum leak at that junction. It goes away once the engine is hot though.

...anyways it failed again. This time only on the 15mph HC. My NO is above average, but fine. My CO is significantly above average, but within limits. HC is measured 101 with the max being 83. Last time it measured 89.

What should I try next?
Patrick NOV 30, 08:00 PM

quote
Originally posted by statue4:

HC is measured 101 with the max being 83. Last time it measured 89.

What should I try next?



Read this over and perhaps address what you already haven't.

What Causes High Hydrocarbon (HC)?
pmbrunelle NOV 30, 08:08 PM
There's a lot of free oxygen in your 15 mph test result... looks like a misfire?

Other general things that may help:
Do an oil change with thicker oil (new oil also has highest viscosity), so less oil end up being burned in the combustion chamber, causing HC.
Try spiking your fuel tank with E85?
statue4 NOV 30, 11:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

There's a lot of free oxygen in your 15 mph test result... looks like a misfire?

Other general things that may help:
Do an oil change with thicker oil (new oil also has highest viscosity), so less oil end up being burned in the combustion chamber, causing HC.
Try spiking your fuel tank with E85?



Besides the coil, the only part of the ignition system that hasn't been replaced is the plug wires, so I'll get some fresh ones on. Right now I've just got 5W30, how thick should I go? I've never heard of spiking the fuel tank with E85. What does that mean? Any of those off the self fuel additives gonna do anything?