A Hot Time in the Ol' Fiero Tonight (Page 3/4)
Notorio JAN 31, 12:26 PM
So my plan for Friday afternoon/Saturday is to:

1) pull the harness and look for other melts-shorts.

2) pull "the console to look at G202 for a start. Screw to the tunnel near ECM."

Thanks for the suggestions Ogre.
Notorio FEB 05, 01:23 PM
Update from Feb 5th

As noted at the beginning of the Post I am adding a second line of questioning here. After removing the gray heat tape and the polyethylene conduit a few things became obvious.

1) The conduit section closest to the exhaust but protected with heat tape was very brittle, it cracked apart with very light hand pressure. Conduit farther away but still covered with the gray heat tape was flexible and in excellent shape.

2) I traced the A2 light green wire that was melted closest to the battery and discovered several areas inside the conduit that were also melted. However, there was no collateral damage to any of the adjacent wires in any section where the Light Green wire was running, melted or not melted. This seems like a good development and if it wasn't for observation #3 I would clean and remake my harness and reinstall. This picture shows one such thoroughly melted area, but again, neighboring wires weren't melted or discolored at all.



3) And here are the supporting pictures showing Defeat perhaps snatched from the jaws of Victory. There are at least 7 splices that I found hiding inside the conduit! These are covered in what appears to be black duct tape (suspiciously not OEM) but underneath they look professionally spliced and soldered. So my basic question is, did the 88 gt, 5spd, with A/C come with existing splices like this or has my harness been hacked? Keep in mind that all systems on the car function normally. At first I thought perhaps a prior owner was replacing damaged wires from some earlier incident but he would have had to use the correct OEM wires -- all of them match perfectly. Taking a closer look these splices are not eliminating a wire that was damaged b/c they do not terminate in another slice leading to two wires, they all go somewhere that looks OEM to me, like a sensor or a pin block. What has happened here???









p.s. I haven't traced all these splices to show where the wires are really going. At this point I'm just trying to understand if this is the stock OEM situation or if I am screwed.
theogre FEB 05, 07:55 PM
That's good that didn't burn others. Likely because only tried to start 1 to a few times. I've seen 1 wire that burn everything they touch... that's then 1 wire didn't burn the whole car and worse. Is why many positive wires have fuses and/or fusible link to prevent battery dumping > 300a to a short. Even then one iffy part can fry the whole car.

Yes, there Are many splice in the engine bay and the rest of car.
Most to All should S5xx numbers as shown in above pages I posted.

Example: should have several splices for injectors (4), ECM sensors (~4) and Cold start injector (1 or 2 depending just how the fusible link is installed.)
Most links are splice then plastic molded cover. Rest of car would have problems w/ same plastic on splice in the harness. Plus cost more money for GM.

Splices are same type as FSM shows dealers how to slice.

If you want to follow all get 88 Fiero FSM or go to alldatadiy.com pay for a year or two.

Black tape on splice for ground mainly just protect others for any sharp edges.
Other pic w/ more splices look normal but is a small pic...
If looks bad on other splice w/ power thru them then fix covering or add more w/ Good Tape like 3M Super 33 or 88 electrical tape. 88 is thicker then 33 but same high resistance to UV rays, abrasion, moisture, alkalis, acids, corrosion and varying weather conditions etc. and rated heat 0 to 221 degrees F but still stay put even at higher and lower temps.
Cheap tapes like HF and many others sell can fail very easy and quickly and many don't meet UL testing and other standards. (just ignore YT and other fools saying most or all E/tapes are same.)

Other black tape over the harness in some areas Is Not electrical tape. Is made for just that job as won't make a sticky mess. I think eastwood.com has/had right tape for this but not digging to find it right now.
pmbrunelle FEB 05, 11:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:
Other black tape over the harness in some areas Is Not electrical tape. Is made for just that job as won't make a sticky mess. I think eastwood.com has/had right tape for this but not digging to find it right now.



For wire bundling purposes, I like Tesa 51036 in the 19 mm and 25 mm widths.
Notorio FEB 05, 11:38 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

That's good that didn't burn others. Likely because only tried to start 1 to a few times. I've seen 1 wire that burn everything they touch... that's then 1 wire didn't burn the whole car and worse. Is why many positive wires have fuses and/or fusible link to prevent battery dumping > 300a to a short. Even then one iffy part can fry the whole car.

Yes, there Are many splice in the engine bay and the rest of car.
Most to All should S5xx numbers as shown in above pages I posted ...




That is such a relief it was GM and not a hacker ... thank you Ogre! I'll see if I can spot those splices in your diagram.


quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

For wire bundling purposes, I like Tesa 51036 in the 19 mm and 25 mm widths.



Many thanks for the recommendation. I shall use that instead of the electrical tape. You have just spared some future owner from dealing with a sticky mess

[This message has been edited by Notorio (edited 02-05-2020).]

pmbrunelle FEB 06, 12:26 AM

quote
Originally posted by Notorio:


Many thanks for the recommendation. I shall use that instead of the electrical tape. You have just spared some future owner from dealing with a sticky mess




I previously did a harness with sticky tape, and then regretted it later... that's what motivated me to find the correct stuff this time around.


quote
Originally posted by Notorio:
As noted at the beginning of the Post I am adding a second line of questioning here. After removing the gray heat tape and the polyethylene conduit a few things became obvious.

1) The conduit section closest to the exhaust but protected with heat tape was very brittle, it cracked apart with very light hand pressure. Conduit farther away but still covered with the gray heat tape was flexible and in excellent shape.



You shouldn't be using polyethylene split loom close to the engine/exhaust; it can melt with the heat.

Nylon split loom is more heat-resistant and will hold up better in an engine bay. Nylon split loom is somewhat hard/expensive to get, so where the stock loom hasn't turned crumbly/fragile, you can just wash it and reuse it.

Nylon split loom is often identified with a white stripe printed on it lengthwise.

Edit to add: in theory, nylon should sink in water, whereas polyethylene should float. Maybe you could verify the type of plastic by filling your bathtub and putting unknown wire loom in it. However, with all the ridges in wire loom, I am not sure if nylon would float due to trapped air bubbles.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 02-06-2020).]

theogre FEB 06, 07:00 PM
yea, many loom covers sold a many car part stores and other places are not rated for engine bay heat, UV light, etc. and often very soon starts cracks and eventually falls apart.

UV? Fiero engine parts see more to much more then normal because of the vents. Big example is EVAP can is black but some to all of it turn gray to white from UV. Mine has "white" strips on top because of later vent design.

Above only shows a few splices. Others listed are in drawings for V6 EFI etc. can tell how many and what colors are in a splice to say like this is S504 etc.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-06-2020).]

Notorio FEB 13, 09:53 PM
So good news and bad news ...

GOOD: The repaired harness is installed and now the lights and fuel pump work normally. No smoke, no flames. I cranked with coil disconnected and kept going until the oil pump showed life on the gauge.

BAD: Connecting the coil the engine just sputters along a bit. Looking under the car I was amazed to see Water pouring out of the little vent/weep hole in the muffler.





Fearing a head gasket disaster I took all the plugs out. No sign of water and a slight gas smell. Taking a closer look at the 'water' I noticed it wasn't my 50:50 anti-freeze mix but clear water. Does this mean my fuel tank is full of water from standing 18 months??
pmbrunelle FEB 13, 10:25 PM
There might be water in your tank, especially if your fuel had ethyl alcohol in it.

Alcohol will suck up water from the atmosphere.

In general, an engine won't run correctly on stale gas.

You may wish to dump some pure alcohol (methyl or ethyl) into the tank to get whatever water's in there mixed with the fuel.

Then, if your tank isn't currently full, you may wish to top it up with fresh fuel.

If your tank is already full, I guess you can burn off the fuel by driving the car the way it is, or you can transfer some junk fuel into another vehicle you own... then top up with fresh fuel.

You could drain a bit of oil from the sump to make sure that there's no coolant in the oil.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 02-13-2020).]

theogre FEB 14, 07:59 PM
Cold Exhaust get water and is it Normally and OEM mufflers often has a drain hole to deal w/ it.
Should stop when The Exhaust is hot and may take some time in cold to very cold weather. Engine hot is not = to Exhaust is hot.

1% to 10% Ethanol in gas won't matter to water in the muffler or out thru tailpipe(s). "Real"/"Pure" gas can always do this. Water can condense and main source is a byproduct of the cat.

Year + old gas may have "Gone Stale." More so if Gas Cap is off/loose/bad etc.
Just what do to depend how much gas in the tank. Under ~ ½ just add fresh 87 octane gas and wait until < ½ to ¼ before filling again.
Full tank, siphon some out then do same. To get rid of rest of old, wait to burn the rest in engine then dump 1-3 gallons then rest fresh until gone.
Dump gas on dirt etc is illegal in most places. If you suck out water watch putting old gas in to use.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-14-2020).]