What brake upgrade maintains a hand brake? (Page 1/2)
branger DEC 04, 01:29 AM
So I’ve added The beefed up brake booster, thinking about better than stock rotors, etc.... what’s the easiest set up and yet maintains a hand brake for a manual? This is for an 87!
Thanks in advance!
Mike in Sydney DEC 04, 05:50 AM
Read about all the brake options in Ogre's cave before you do anything. If you move forward the Grand Am is easiest. If you want to keep the e-brake, you can keep the Fiero rear disks or use '85 Seville calipers on the rear.

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Mike in Sydney

branger DEC 04, 03:30 PM
Thanks for the response, eventually I want to do an engine upgrade and whe I do, I want the Fiero to stop safely.
creaky78 DEC 04, 05:06 PM
Has anyone tried a line lock on the rear brake line?
pmbrunelle DEC 04, 07:20 PM

quote
Originally posted by branger: what’s the easiest set up and yet maintains a hand brake for a manual? This is for an 87!
Thanks in advance!



There are no good easy recipes to follow at the moment... hence why my Fiero still has stock brakes.
theogre DEC 04, 08:42 PM
If factory brakes "have problems" then WTF makes you GA and other "upgrades" are any better?
GA and Seville rears uses same "crap design" parking brakes as Fiero, 6000, Firebird and others.
4W GA is illegal in most palaces regardless doesn't have inspections or can "pass" the lame inspections.
Other "Upgrades" have many of same or worse problems covered in Brake Upgrade because they are "design" by fools that think they can bolt on anything from another car w/o issues. I just only cover the GA because was "popular" at the time, is still sold by TFS and push a lot by others for use on the street.

Calipers and cables "rust/freeze problems" and even "poor performance" issues are mainly cause by DIY and even by so called "Pros" including ASE that might know but cutting corners for doing a job.
Like:
  • Rear caliper levers and screws get stuck to "weld" in/to the body w/o careful use of Brake Grease to lube and keep out "water."
  • Sliders need Brake Grease too yet Many install them dry or use wrong grease making rubber swells up. Either makes big problems. Worse, "Old standard" GM sliders are not the only moving part that needs cleaning and lube but nearly all ignores them.
  • Most use cheapest pads available or use whatever crap on Ebay Amazon etc. While some are good, Ebay Amazon and others have big problems w/ counterfeit and no name parts.
    And still wonder why the brake suck on many cars not just Fiero.
    Example: Other cars have SS parts as "slider" in different ways but most never clean and lube normal metal parts touching them then wonder why brakes wear out fast. Oh... can't see why? Short answer is polluted water quickly rust normal steel then rust swells making SS parts very tight and pads can't move right or not at all and drag them to death and quick. Often in 1 year or less.


    quote
    Originally posted by creaky78:
    Has anyone tried a line lock on the rear brake line?

    Besides they are Illegal in most places... They don't work as a parking brake and often wreck the hydro system if dumb enough to try. Then add If, more like When, the brake fail to hold when parked and car hurts/kills someone expect to get sued even if you avoid getting change w/ crimes. You can find your Insurance Co won't pay enough or at all when they find out.
    • cmechmann DEC 04, 09:53 PM
    I have been unfortunately using my 87 Fiero for the last 4 years as a daily driver. Someone came through a stop sign on my last Fiero and my other daily, was Tboned, someone left turned into my Blazer. Bending the frame enough to pull the drive shaft out of the transmission.
    I have put over 35,000 miles on it in that time. When I put the car on the road for daily, rebuilt the front calipers and new hoses all around. Replaced the front and rear pads and rotors. The rotors were Bendix and the pads Raybestes. NOS
    In that time, only about 5,000 miles ago did rear brakes.
    Now mind you, I am a certified mechanic. Technicians? Mechanics don't mind getting their hands dirty. And have an easier time working on my car if needed. Believe me. The last thing a working mechanic wants to do is work on their own car.
    With that.
    Unless you are auto crossing or just want the "cool factor", DON'T MODIFY YOUR BRAKES.
    As stated here, proper care on the stock system goes a long way. When I did the rear I rebuilt the calipers with new pistons.
    I will be doing the front soon and other than mild front rotor pulsation, have had no issues. And this is with stop and go beltway/city driving. With a 2005 vinK 3800 bolted to a 1995 4T60e transmission with a 1993 PCM. With the Fieros I have been driving, it seems that people don't see you or just don't care. So a lot of quick stops/ heavy braking.

    But if you have to.
    The booster mod is not that bad of an idea. Your not screwing with the hydraulic balance.
    I have been working on a front mod. Have been toying with it for about 2 years and still don't have it down.
    That was to use S10 rear calipers with the same piston diameter pistons. The pads are about 93% the same surface area. With Cavalier vented rotors 10.15". The mod is almost bolt on other than drilling the threads out on the spindles for bolts and cut off Fiero rotor hubs. The bolts, bolt into the caliper bracket instead of the spindle. The same way the Isuzu Impulse used. By the way are the same spindles except for the threads for the caliper bracket. I would have to use 10mm spacer between the caliper bracket and spindle, but this is becoming common on OE applications. I haven't put this together for 2 reasons. I don't like the cut off Fiero rotor as a spindle. and would rather use a different hub to decrease the spacers. I have been researching a few hubs but haven't put all the numbers together yet. This is some of my standards for this. Have to be a SAE approved hub used on car sold in the US. For the same or more GVW for that axle.
    First one. 1994-1998 VW VR6 5 lug rear hub. Uses the same outer bearing races, but the distance between bearings may be too narrow.
    Second. 1992-1997 Plymouth Acclaim and Dodge twins rear drum hub, But the right bearings may be hard to find.
    And finally even harder to find Subaru 2wd rear hubs with 5 bolt. And the center opening is 1mm different.
    If all of the specs don't come together, it is not going on my car.

    [This message has been edited by cmechmann (edited 12-04-2019).]

    wftb DEC 04, 10:51 PM
    I have stock rear brakes and modified front brakes. If you get your stock rear brakes working like new they work quite well, even on track days. The Fiero really does not weigh enough to need huge vented rear brakes so why bother? Big rear brakes are just for looks unless you are driving a 4000 lb car.

    That being said, the braking distance for stock 84-87 fiero's from 70 mph is 200 feet. There are very few modern cars, even minivans and large SUV's that take more than 170 feet to come to a stop from 70 mph. Most new sedans will do it in 160 feet or less. That means you have to realize something when driving along: everybody in front of you has better brakes than you do.

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    86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
    rear SLA suspension
    QA1 coilovers on tube arms

    branger DEC 05, 12:19 AM
    Thanks gang! This is a very interesting topic as we all want good brakes, and don’t want to screw up our cars in the process of getting better. I think at this point, I will make no other changes besides my brake booster (mind you when I did the bigger brake booster, I replaced the rubber brake hoses with threaded steel cables, thinking increased booster may increase hydronic pressure in the lines, but I’m no mechanic).
    theogre DEC 05, 03:56 PM

    quote
    Originally posted by wftb:
    That being said, the braking distance for stock 84-87 fiero's from 70 mph is 200 feet. There are very few modern cars, even minivans and large SUV's that take more than 170 feet to come to a stop from 70 mph. Most new sedans will do it in 160 feet or less. That means you have to realize something when driving along: everybody in front of you has better brakes than you do.

    Because many run Higher hydro system pressure and other "mods" and let ABS to limit brake power to hopefully stop on crap/wet roads.
    Many vehicles have Hydro or Electric PB that puts higher pressure input to the MC.

    I don't know where you get brake data... Many Owners Manuals and other OEM are wrong for many reasons.
    GM and other also publish under rated HP and Torque # for many cars and other vehicles. Many are done to fake numbers for insurance and feds. Other are done so one model far weaker then their high dollar car(s). Don't believe "Car & Driver" rags either that gets Huge $ from GM etc.

    Fiero w/ better brake and suspension parts or even change tires can reduce braking distance way lower then data in OM.
    If you replace w/ cheapest parts or tires then very possibly you get same or even worse then OM said.

    This just just Hype that Michelin etc use this to sell Tires and other parts that can help you stop better.