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| 180 degree exhaust for 3800 2 (Page 1/4) |
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ttt123
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OCT 15, 08:52 PM
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Is it possible to do a 180 degree set up on the exhaust for the 3.8sc motor? Which pistons would i pair? My header kit came in today and i think it would be unique to hear and have.
Just thinking out loud guys. Im starting my exhaust and thought is ask.
Thanks
Brian
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fieroguru
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OCT 15, 11:03 PM
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There isn't a need for 180 degree headers on the 3800 (or the 60 degree V6 family either). The firing order alternates bank to bank with each firing pulse. So this means just having equal length headers on each side will give you equal exhaust pulses at the tail pipe (assuming the total exhaust from each bank is equal).
Most traditional V8s benefit from them as they have two cylinders on each bank fire back to back. The 180 headers effectively moves the out of sequence pulses into the exhaust of the other bank to get equally timed pulses on each bank.
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Spoon
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OCT 15, 11:16 PM
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I'm clueless in this department but here's a link that may help you.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...160323-2-126313.html
Spoon
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"Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
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Blacktree
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OCT 16, 12:45 AM
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Not to be a dork, but it's not feasible to build 180-degree headers for an engine with a 120-degree firing interval.
Also, the purpose of 180 degree headers on an odd-fire V8 is to even out the exhaust pulses. But on the 3800, the exhaust pulses are already even. No special exhaust needed.[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 10-16-2019).]
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pmbrunelle
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OCT 16, 01:57 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Blacktree:
Not to be a dork, but it's not feasible to build 180-degree headers for an engine with a 120-degree firing interval. |
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180 degrees is in reference to camshaft degrees, i.e. half of a four-stroke cycle, or 360 crankshaft degrees.
It works out.
You would pair together the following cylinders which are separated by 360 crankshaft degrees:
1, 4
6, 3
5, 2
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ttt123
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OCT 16, 07:01 AM
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Well I'm not a guru on this either but I just want to transform the sound of this motor and exploring way to do this. I guess I would have a hurdle of pairing them at the collectors as well since one collector would have to have 4 primaries and the other would only have 2.
but from what fieroguru said its already firing in a "180 degree" fashion so there might not be any benefit to pair them differently.
The system I build if its just normal headers will be equal length shorties to an x pipe and out. everything will be equal length(both sides 100%) as I wont be crossing over the trans since my motor is longitudinal. I know I don't have a flat plane motor but I am just trying to get the most exotic ... OR unique sound I can out of this set up.
this video below is of the stock manifolds, crossover of the trans to a set of shorty bullets to N1's and it sounds ... horrible lol It was a system I through together very quickly and was really just a way to see if it transformed the sound. I don't think I changed much with it. My new set up will be 1 5/8's primaries and I went with dyno max shorty bullets this time. I will make my own X pipe like I did on the 911. The goal will be to create the shortest exhaust SYSTEM to try and change the pitch.. bunch of stuff I was reading on some crazy physics forum regarding exhaust and Ferrari's designs.. I KNOW I KNOW buy a Ferrari if you want a Ferrari sound.. just sharing my thought process on this journey lol
At the end of the day I think i'm stuck with the 3.8 sounding like.... a 3.8 lol go figure lol just about everything I've viewed on youtube for exhausts for these engines seems to vary .. very little.
thoughts?
Guys thank you very much for chiming in, I truly appreciate this forums and the fun spirit of car guys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtQB0fKRcYU
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pmbrunelle
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OCT 16, 12:25 PM
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180 degree headers for the 3800 V6 would be as follows:
A a minimum, you would have three 2-into-1 collectors; these collectors pairing the cylinders that are 180 degrees out of phase on a camshaft rotation.
From there, you could have a triple exit exhaust.
Or, the three pipes could combine in a 3-into-1 collector.
I don't know if this would give the sound you're after; I'm just saying that this is how "180 degree headers" would be implemented on the Buick V6.
I don't know if buying a genuine Ferrari muffler would transform the sound.
There's the "Taiwan" Fiero that has the sound you're looking for, so you may wish to copy that. It has some weird things going on, optimizing the cool sound over performance. I don't think it was some straightforward equal length header that makes sense for performance.
Also, maybe you want to figure this with the engine out of the car, so you can easily construct prototype exhausts from cheap mild steel, without the constraints of having to package the exhaust in the engine bay. After doing a series of cheap/ugly exhausts that cannot fit, you can select the winner and attempt to fit it in the engine bay.[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 10-16-2019).]
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ttt123
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OCT 16, 12:47 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by pmbrunelle:
180 degree headers for the 3800 V6 would be as follows:
A a minimum, you would have three 2-into-1 collectors; these collectors pairing the cylinders that are 180 degrees out of phase on a camshaft rotation.
From there, you could have a triple exit exhaust.
Or, the three pipes could combine in a 3-into-1 collector.
I don't know if this would give the sound you're after; I'm just saying that this is how "180 degree headers" would be implemented on the Buick V6.
I don't know if buying a genuine Ferrari muffler would transform the sound.
There's the "Taiwan" Fiero that has the sound you're looking for, so you may wish to copy that. It has some weird things going on, optimizing the cool sound over performance. I don't think it was some straightforward equal length header that makes sense for performance.
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great post, thank you!!
The Ferrari muffler I don't think would help that much. over the last few weeks I've read a ton on there designs. The biggest contributor to there sound is the crank/motor of coarse and the shortness of the system. from what I've read they make the system extremely equal in length and they exit it out the back of the car asap. a lot of the set ups are pretty much headers to a resonator to help with drone and then out the back. My thinking with the dyno max bullets is to keep it diametrically small as can be to break up the duration of the pulses a bit. the X pipe from what I read is a big benefit to the sound as far as raising the pitch on a shorter system as well.
As far as performance... I called up zzp and ordered everything I could for the motor. so I think it should still put out plenty of power. Again not trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about. Just repeating everything I've been reading. the system I'm attempting will most likely affect low end if at all and These motor seem to have plenty of torque in a 2600lbs car to make it worth sacrificing a little bit to alter the sound.
the three into one or the three separate... now my brain is really smoking how I can pull this off lol
thanks again, really appreciate it.
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La fiera
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OCT 16, 01:41 PM
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ttt123
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OCT 16, 01:57 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by La fiera:
Like Guru said, two equal length pipes will give the V6 a similar sound to a 180 header car, specially at high RPMs!
Below is the sound of it inside and outside of the car.
https://youtu.be/Ndrq9smPWBY
Outside the car
https://youtu.be/Ukwzr7Kk9t0
From inside the car |
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... ya... those sounded amazing lol do you have some pics you could share of your set up?
Thanks
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