Potential Series 1 Swap? (Page 1/2)
buttsisfun SEP 09, 08:11 PM
Hello everybody. I picked up an 88 this past spring with the 2.5 and the 3 speed auto, and along with the car I got a brand new crate Series 1 3800SC. Yes, a new, never used, series 1. I got the car and the engine from my old high school. When I was a student there, the Fiero was donated for educational purposes and the plan was to swap in the engine (which was donated by GM to a neighboring school years earlier) and turn the Fiero into a drag car. Unfortunately, there were issues with funding etc. and the project never took off while I was still there. Fast forward a handful of years and I convinced my old teacher to sell me the car, and he surprised me by throwing in the engine for free. He told me "I know you're actually going to work on it, and if it stays here it'll probably just get scrapped."

I did the head gasket on the 2.5 and overhauled the brake system so I could drive and enjoy the car while I plan the swap. I then started a new job and the planning was put on hold. Now that I've looked more into it, I am aware that the series 1 has lower HP numbers, a higher deck height, less available parts, and a less stout lower end than the series 2&3. Since it has a bit of sentimental value and my shop teacher did me a solid by giving me this engine, I'd like to use it, but I have no wiring harness and no trans to go with the engine. My teacher claimed the 3800 would bolt up to the 3 speed auto in the car, but I have been unable to find any evidence. I did some searching on the forums and couldn't seem to find too much info on series 1 swaps, and I couldn't find any info on attempting a 3800 swap with one of the factory 3 speeds. If I missed something, please point me in that direction.

I've also looked into a couple manual swap options, but if I could make the engine I have work with the transmission I have, in theory it should be easier/cheaper. Is this something that people have done? Has it been documented? I'd obviously like to use the engine I have, but should I run away screaming instead and buy a series 2/3?
sourmash SEP 09, 08:39 PM
I'd support you using the engine since it's a crate engine and you got it in the manner that you did. A couple of people will poo-poo it but why waste good parts? I acquired a parted 3800sc series I Fiero setup and was going to use it for a series II, but got a better setup car since then. The series I parts are still around here and you can have them pretty reasonably but I'm 7-8 hrs from you. It was a 5 spd Isuzu which is still here too. I step over the clutch and flywheel every other day in my garage. The trans and wiring harness with computer could probably be identified with a little bit of effort. I've parted a couple of cars and am not well organized.

I found the engine, an engine mount and wiring harness.

[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 09-09-2019).]

Dave E Bouy SEP 09, 09:50 PM
Absolutely use that motor. While the HP numbers are a bit down from the SERIES II the torque numbers are very similar and torque is what's gonna get you off the line quickly. I'll take torque over HP all day any day. Also the Series I will bolt to any stock Fiero transmission. Is the 3 speed auto able to stand up to 270 ft.lbs of torque is another matter.

DF
fierofool SEP 09, 11:04 PM
Since it's an automatic, a 4T60 trans would be perfect. That's what Georgia Fieros has in an 88 Coupe with a 3800 Series 1.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 09-09-2019).]

AsaBergman SEP 10, 07:55 AM
Some info. No Series I or original 3800(LN3) came with a manual(except maybe Holdens) so unless the Series I and II cranks have the same bolt pattern you'd need a custom flywheel to use a Series I with a manual.

The 3800 Series I will bolt up to the th125c 3 speed auto but never came paired with it factory. It'll work but if you're looking to drive hard/fun you will destroy the 3 speed. Chances are the trans would fail in the long run even with calm daily driving without a rebuild. 4 speed auto swap would be needed for reliability eventually.

The primary issue is will it fit? As you pointed out the Series I is slightly taller than II. Until you pull your engine and mock up the 3800 this is in the air. I've seen DOHC engines in the Fiero but the 3800 intake is pretty tall.

I was interested in an LN3 3800 or Series I swap with my 4 speed manual. Lower torque would hopefully avoid blowing up the transmission but my conclusion was that it wasn't worth the effort.

I will point out one extra thing: The series I was used in the 91 Buick Reatta and a few years of the Riviera and Olds Toronado. A legit crate engine may be of interest to owners of these cars. I own three Reattas so I would know, lol. If you were to find a buyer the engine goes to a good home and you have funds for a Series II swap.
MarkS SEP 10, 10:20 AM
Hi,
Do you know what year the Series1 is? There are differences, the 94 & 95 versions are 225hp; prior years are 205 I believe. The later year engines also used a different ECM, something referred to as OBD 1.5; a half way point to OBD 2 so to speak, and specific to those engines. I happen to like the 225hp version; having both, I think the S1 is a smoother engine than an S2 if it matters to you. It is more of a chore to install but it has been done successfully.

------------------
65 Tempest 400 CID
2018 Chevy Colorado Z71 3.6
2015 BMW 535iX M Sport
2008 G6 GT "Street" Coupe
2005 Buick 3.6 Rendezvous

buttsisfun SEP 10, 10:49 AM
Thanks for the advice/info! I appreciate the help. My personal intent with the car is not to turn it into a drag car, but more of a fun driver that might make it to a couple track days per season. The car was pretty rough when I got it (last tag on the plate was 2006 and it was parked outside the entire time) so it's by no means a creampuff. Maybe a crate engine is "too good" for it LOL.

I'm sure the 3 speed wouldn't love the power increase, and Ideally I'd like to throw a manual in it at some point in the future (for both longevity and fun). For now, if I stick with this engine I'm leaning toward rolling the dice on the 3 speed until I pay off a couple more student loans and accumulate more cash in my Car-Parts-I-Really-Didn't-Need fund. It would definitely be a bummer if it blew up immediately, but this is not my daily driver so it wouldn't be the end of the world. If my assumptions are correct, this would allow me to use stock half shafts and trans mounts (assuming the engine has clearance in that location), as well as not needing to source a trans yet. I'll have to take some measurements on the engine sometime this week.

As far as selling the engine, how strong is the market for these? It's a series 1 with the gen. 2 charger (the earlier 205hp setup). From what I was seeing it seemed like it would be pretty hard to find a buyer, but maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places.

[This message has been edited by buttsisfun (edited 09-10-2019).]

sourmash SEP 10, 05:40 PM
Here's the engine on top of my pile. OBD1?
Looks like it had enough torque to crack the mount, requiring a repair.



[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 09-10-2019).]

buttsisfun SEP 10, 09:09 PM
Dang, that looks like the Gen. 3 supercharger, meaning it's the later series 1 with OBD1.5. I'm not sure if it would be possible for me to use that wiring harness on my earlier engine
sourmash SEP 10, 10:34 PM
Shoulda provided a better shot of the supercharger. I'll look for some numbers in better light tomorrow. Anything to look for?
This isn't the long snout of the normal gen 3 I'm used to seeing, but maybe the 1.5 was a mix.



I have a suspicion that this one below is a series 1.5. I got it from a Riviera and think it was a 95. Supercharger is much different. No idea why the image is being eaten away over time. But the computer is large just like the 2000 era computers. One less fin on this one than either of the others.



And here's a gen V pulled from a GXP.

[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 09-10-2019).]