Best Brake Pads for a stock 88 (Page 1/2)
Formula Owner JUL 20, 08:04 PM
I found this thread started by Raydar, but he has upgraded brakes, so I don't know if the same recommendation would apply to a stock 88.

It seems that the Wagner Thermoquiet pads I have now don't have the bite they did when new. And I can't lock the wheels. I would like good braking when the brakes are cold. Like a good set for autocrossing. That thread above also suggests EBC Greenstuff, which seems to priced pretty well on Amazon.

[This message has been edited by Formula Owner (edited 07-20-2019).]

theogre JUL 20, 11:24 PM
Likely is Not a pad problem.
Many things can cause this.
Even pad dragging making it/them hot can cause weak braking.
88 can have most if not all of same problems as early years.
See my Cave, Brake Service and rest of section.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

Raydar JUL 21, 12:12 PM
In case you didn't see my post in (I think) your other thread, I have stopped using Thermoquiet pads.
The last ones that I bought dusted like hell, and made a mess of my wheels. (Pontiac G6. Not the Fiero. But still...)

It's been a while since I needed to buy brakes for my Fiero, but I'm probably going to go with the Raybestos pads. YMMV.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-21-2019).]

Blacktree JUL 21, 05:01 PM
The EBC Greenstuff pads are a good choice.

I'm using the Raybestos ceramic pads in my daily driver, and am happy with them. It feels like they perform slightly better than stock, but that's completely subjective. The reduction in brake dust is like night and day (compared to semi-metallic pads).
Formula Owner JUL 21, 05:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Likely is Not a pad problem.
Many things can cause this.
Even pad dragging making it/them hot can cause weak braking.
88 can have most if not all of same problems as early years.
See my Cave, Brake Service and rest of section.


I've been through the hydraulics of my system, and I'm confident that it's working correctly. My car coasts very well, indicating no brake dragging. I've done a number of "brake stress tests", where I get up to 80, brake hard to 20, then repeat several times. On the first run, the braking is pretty poor. The 2nd... it gets better. The 3rd and 4th, better each time. 5th and 6th... about the same as 4. After 6, braking gets worse, and I start smelling the brakes. I always stop the first time I smell the brakes. I don't get the "hot brake" smell until I do a lot of hard braking. The one remaining item I haven't dug into is my booster. That could be a problem.

What makes me think it COULD be a pad problem is the fact that they creak now. They didn't do that when new. I thought that the creaking might be due to sticking sliders, but I recently re-greased the sliders, and the brake performance remained unchanged, including the creaking.
Formula Owner JUL 21, 05:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

In case you didn't see my post in (I think) your other thread, I have stopped using Thermoquiet pads.
The last ones that I bought dusted like hell, and made a mess of my wheels. (Pontiac G6. Not the Fiero. But still...)

It's been a while since I needed to buy brakes for my Fiero, but I'm probably going to go with the Raybestos pads. YMMV.


I saw your other post, and I saw that you are now using Raybestos pads. I also saw that you have larger (Vette?) rotors, so that info didn't really tell me whether they would work for my stock setup. Do the Raybestos pads have as good or better bite as the Thermoquiets?
Formula Owner JUL 21, 05:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

The EBC Greenstuff pads are a good choice.

I'm using the Raybestos ceramic pads in my daily driver, and am happy with them. It feels like they perform slightly better than stock, but that's completely subjective. The reduction in brake dust is like night and day (compared to semi-metallic pads).


The Raybestos pads "perform better". Does that mean, more bite? I.e. more braking with the same pedal effort? And better than the OEM (organic) stock pads? The OEM stock pads were organic, weren't they?
Blacktree JUL 21, 10:50 PM
I probably should have mentioned my daily driver is a VW Jetta. Stock pads on that car are semi-metallic. And yes, the ceramics seem to have better "bite".
theogre JUL 22, 01:25 PM

quote
Originally posted by Formula Owner:
I've been through the hydraulics of my system, and I'm confident that it's working correctly. My car coasts very well, indicating no brake dragging. I've done a number of "brake stress tests", where I get up to 80, brake hard to 20, then repeat several times. On the first run, the braking is pretty poor. The 2nd... it gets better. The 3rd and 4th, better each time. 5th and 6th... about the same as 4. After 6, braking gets worse, and I start smelling the brakes. I always stop the first time I smell the brakes. I don't get the "hot brake" smell until I do a lot of hard braking. The one remaining item I haven't dug into is my booster. That could be a problem.

What makes me think it COULD be a pad problem is the fact that they creak now. They didn't do that when new. I thought that the creaking might be due to sticking sliders, but I recently re-greased the sliders, and the brake performance remained unchanged, including the creaking.

100% working Hyrdo doesn't mean much. Iffy booster or Vacuum to it can be a problem but many times you have a harder pedal. Iffy rear calipers can cause low performance and/or low pedal w/ too much pad clearance. Iffy front caliper are common too.

But...

When you force the brakes to over heat doing a crap test then you will often have problem just by Glazing the pads.
If you have caliper problems and they are dragging the pads then will do the same. Or worse, That can cause brake failure or a fire. Rear pistons are very well known for problems and some where recalled by GM. See my Cave, Do You Recall? and Rear Brakes section.
Any oil/grease and other contaminates can Glaze the pads too. Like Many don't clean new rotors/drums and anti rust coating to protect them in inventory will Glaze the Pads/Shoes. (Most rust protection are veg base and wash off w/ dish soap and water and maybe Scotch-Brite.) Many have Open Rims that besides showing brakes lets more crap on them. Many fools remove the "dirt shield" behind the brake that does same.

Glazed pads/shoes often Will Not recover by themselves. Might not even save them by grinding/sanding them on a bench.
Plus Over heating can warp the rotor(s) etc. Warped rotors can make the whole caliper to move sideways etc trying to stop the car and make noise and more so when brake parts do not have Brake Grease on the sliders and some other point depending on exact car model and year.


quote
Originally posted by Formula Owner:
The Raybestos pads "perform better". Does that mean, more bite? I.e. more braking with the same pedal effort? And better than the OEM (organic) stock pads? The OEM stock pads were organic, weren't they?

OEM Fiero are semi-metallic but cheaper grade. Most aftermarket sources including all Wagner and Raybestos are also semi-metallic for Fiero.
Others claim are ceramic or otherwise "High performance" for use on Fiero often have problems like many are "race" pads that need much more heat just to work and doesn't get that heat driving on the street.

Just get best/premium pads from AZ Raybestos etc. Not some quack snake oil "performance" pads from Ebay, Amazon, etc.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 07-22-2019).]

mcguiver3 JUL 22, 07:25 PM
While I race/autocross my 88 Formula trying to find pads that could hold up and give me the bite I wanted was difficult at the time.
Searching for alternatives, I found The Hawk HB100 pads for the Wilwood Dyna Lite caliper looked promising.
The pad was exactly the right size and shape albeit needing a little bit of grinding of the backing plate (about 1/16") and open up the locating holes a tad they dropped right in.
Been using the HP Plus at .480 thick but it allows use of any compound they offer in that size.