GM High Value LZ9 Swap? (Page 2/11)
hiwil88formula JUL 12, 08:39 PM
I have a running lz9/f23 running the e67 ecm. Basically like it cam out of the 09 Lucerne it came out of. I have it attached to the factory gauges. I have to tell you it is a ton of fab work. I got the diagrams from gmtuners and wired the engine myself. Took about 3 years off and on to get it right. No I just need to figure out the tach and get the a/c working. Fun to drive and sounds awesome. I have tons of pics up on Facebook on pfffacebook page. Feel free to ask questions.
ChuckR JUL 13, 06:14 AM

quote
Originally posted by hiwil88formula:

I have a running lz9/f23 running the e67 ecm. Basically like it cam out of the 09 Lucerne it came out of. I have it attached to the factory gauges. I have to tell you it is a ton of fab work. I got the diagrams from gmtuners and wired the engine myself. Took about 3 years off and on to get it right. No I just need to figure out the tach and get the a/c working. Fun to drive and sounds awesome. I have tons of pics up on Facebook on pfffacebook page. Feel free to ask questions.



I will definitely be asking questions! First is what kind of fab work? I was hoping it would fit without cutting away at the car itself. I figure there is going to be a ton of wiring to get the electrical side working. I will look up your posts on PFF facebook.
ChuckR AUG 15, 07:56 AM
Hiwil I have not found your pictures on the FB site. How much of the fab work was wiring? did you need to alter the frame? or was it all fabbing mounts ect? Please tell me more! I have been speaking with Ryan at sinister about different combos to get where I want, and even though this engine will not get me to my magical 300 WHP I want, i think it hits all of my other swap list, but that depends on what kind of fab work you are talking about here. I was hoping that it would be the least amount of metal fab.
Dennis LaGrua AUG 15, 10:37 AM
The LFX high feature engine is gaining popularity as a swap but not in Fieros so far. Its light, DOHC, revs high and provide 300-325HP stock. If you can get it to work it might be the perfect engine.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

ChuckR AUG 15, 12:27 PM

quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

The LFX high feature engine is gaining popularity as a swap but not in Fieros so far. Its light, DOHC, revs high and provide 300-325HP stock. If you can get it to work it might be the perfect engine.




I have been looking heavily at that package, but I was reading Daryl's build last night and there was some discussion about the 6T70E not fitting and I want to use a mated engine trans combo to keep things more simple. That and they were saying the BCM is required for that trans as well, where I do not think the 4T75E mated to the 3900 requires the BMC to work.Daryl has a really nice LFX build in process but he is doing the F40. I have thought of following his footsteps as well, but that will require changing over my car to manual and not being able to do a full donor car like I am planning. I can drive and do love a manual, but I am looking to keep my swap simple as can be since it is my first ever doing anything more than maintenance and I do not want an unfinished swap on my hands because I got in over my head. I do keep looking at the 3800SC too since it is well documented, but to be honest, I dont like how it sounds as silly as that is.Nor do I like the idea of adding more weight to the rear of the car since it already has a lot of front end lift under acceleration. i think the stock mounts even come real close to fitting the 3900 which is why I was trying to find Hiwil's build pictures.

i love the sound of my 2.8 and I have listened to clips of Impala's and Monte Carlo's with an exhaust on them and they sound pretty good too. The 3800SC is uninspiring to me. I mean you cant even hear the M90 SC whine like you can on the Cobalt's with the SC. Since right now I am researching I know I will change my mind another 6 times. I have a friend that is a VW freak that is trying to get me to do a VR6 like BMWGuru did as well... Yes I have been doing a lot of build stalking as of late... LOL. The LS4 is always a good idea too, but i really want to stay V6.
pmbrunelle AUG 15, 12:49 PM
If all you've done is maintenance, maybe you could start modifying the stock engine (i.e. making a custom exhaust for it, etc), as a way of building your fabrication skills before diving into a swap?

My Fiero has been down for almost three years while I modify the mostly stock engine... if I were doing a swap, I cannot imagine how long it would take to complete.
wftb AUG 15, 01:36 PM
I did a performance rebuild on the 2.8 that came with my 86 GT. I spent over 2000.00 on it, bored over balanced etc etc. It ate a cam lobe after about 800 KM. Later I learned that the only decent lifters are GM OEM, not the aftermarket lifters I put in. The GM lifters were 5 times the price. Anyway , that is when I decided I did not want to deal with ancient technology anymore. I did a 2.2 ecotec swap, and by using all of the wiring harness and ECM, BCM and fuel pump etc from a 2004 cavalier I had it back on the road in 6 weeks. Obviously not without a lot of rough edges that I have been smoothing out for years but I try to use a simple guideline: If I cant get a mod done over a winter, I do not bother.
That being said, now that I am retired, each of my 2 hobby cars takes every other year off the road because I don't want to spend so much on insurance. This year I am driving my 91 civic wagon.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

ChuckR AUG 15, 03:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

If all you've done is maintenance, maybe you could start modifying the stock engine (i.e. making a custom exhaust for it, etc), as a way of building your fabrication skills before diving into a swap?

My Fiero has been down for almost three years while I modify the mostly stock engine... if I were doing a swap, I cannot imagine how long it would take to complete.



As wftb says below your post, I do not want to spend time and money on an engine that will never be anywhere close to what I am looking for. I am also looking for a project, something that will have my stamp that make this Chuck's Fiero, not just another 2.8 GT on the road. I spent the past year and a half deciding what car I wanted to do a swap in. I chose the Fiero because it is so unique and a piece of my childhood. I love the wedge, 80's nostalgia, the first (was only) US made mid-engine. I love my new to me, I have had it 1 month now, 1988 Fiero GT. I want to do it right, the way it was meant to be done when new. And while the 2.8 was a good step in the 80's it still wasnt the power level that was envisioned for this car. The LFX is closer to what the original vision for this car was, albeit a much more modern version of it. I am willing to stay on board with the 6 60 though even if it is iron and pushrod vs aluminum and DOHC. I want more and efficient power then the 2.8 will ever deliver. I want a better transmission than a near first generation transaxle is. But that doesnt mean I want to hack up the frame and and get way too much out of my scope. I will be planning this for at least a year if not 2. I will be asking seasoned builders about mounting locations, software, wiring etc before I ever come close to dropping the engine. I want the challange, i just dont want to be reinventing the wheel along the way. Nor do I want to have 40g in it when I am done. I am expecting 10-15..

[This message has been edited by ChuckR (edited 08-15-2019).]

ChuckR AUG 16, 06:05 AM

quote
Originally posted by Will:

It just hasn't been as popular. I think it's a great idea. The LZ9 can probably go up to 270 HP with a little work, like a cam swap, but the 3800 will go MUCH higher.

The LZ9 was offered with a stick in the Pontiac G6 GTP in 2006 & 2007.

The front engine mount bracket looks like this:





It bolts to the bottom of the oil pan and attaches to a mount very similar to the stock Fiero engine mount... There should be little to no modification required to get it mounted.

The minivan applications of the LZ9 have a "crossover" style exhaust that has a single outlet to the rear, which will be easier to deal with in a Fiero.



Will, for mounting the LZ9 in the cradle would I be correct in the assumption that the LZ9 will bolt to my stock TH125 transmission? I do not plan to use this trans mission, but I am thinking that if I leave it bolted in the cradle then bolt the LZ9 to it that will help in locating engine placement. Then once I have the motor mounts fabbed up and connected I can unbolt the TH125 and bolt up the 4T65E in its place and fabbing the trans mounts, thus keeping the original engine / trans locations and alignment.

fieroguru AUG 16, 08:11 AM

quote
Originally posted by ChuckR:


Will, for mounting the LZ9 in the cradle would I be correct in the assumption that the LZ9 will bolt to my stock TH125 transmission? I do not plan to use this trans mission, but I am thinking that if I leave it bolted in the cradle then bolt the LZ9 to it that will help in locating engine placement. Then once I have the motor mounts fabbed up and connected I can unbolt the TH125 and bolt up the 4T65E in its place and fabbing the trans mounts, thus keeping the original engine / trans locations and alignment.



There is really no need to stick with the original engine/transmission placement. You will find that the 4T65 is much larger, and using your method will having you cutting portions of the cradle to fit the transmission after the fact. It is best to start with the engine & transmission combo and play around with the placement until it optimizes clearance, axle selections, etc. Even with the stock engine placement, the axle/CV angles changed between auto and manual transmissions, so there isn't a right or ideal axle angle, even from GM.