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| GM High Value LZ9 Swap? (Page 10/11) |
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Will
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FEB 17, 09:44 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by tb30570:
cvxjet...is 300lb for the LV3 an estimate or has somebody verified the weight? I would have estimated 340-350lb.
the lightest v6 with at least 3.0L I have heard of is the 60 degree Bowtie at around 270lb. The aluminum block part number is 10051141. I saw one on eBay about a year ago. I've heard that block has larger Gen III 2.25" journals so it could be used with an LW9 80mm forged crank. Together with common 89mm pistons, displacement is 3.0L. Gen III aluminium heads from the L82/LG8/LA1 are supposed to fit. |
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You can go bigger on the bore, probably dependent on how much boost you want to run. The heads flow plenty to run the 84mm stroke from an LX9. Some of those crankshafts are forged.
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cvxjet
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FEB 17, 12:21 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by tb30570:
cvxjet...is 300lb for the LV3 an estimate or has somebody verified the weight? I would have estimated 340-350lb.
the lightest v6 with at least 3.0L I have heard of is the 60 degree Bowtie at around 270lb. The aluminum block part number is 10051141. I saw one on eBay about a year ago. I've heard that block has larger Gen III 2.25" journals so it could be used with an LW9 80mm forged crank. Together with common 89mm pistons, displacement is 3.0L. Gen III aluminium heads from the L82/LG8/LA1 are supposed to fit. |
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I have read that in a few places on the net...But nothing really official. I just did a calculation......Chevy 5.7 (550 lbs) vs LS V8 (Aluminum)(400) which gives a ratio of 1.375 to 1, so a Iron 4.3 weighs 425 (Approx') and that gives you 309 lbs for the LV3. (Remember, they eliminated the Distributor but they added VVT....Also, they are really trying to make the engine lighter so eliminating extraneous crap)
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ericjon262
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FEB 17, 06:35 PM
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I'm currently looking at LZ9's for my car's next engine. FWIW, the Buick Lucerne LZ9 has the alternator mounted high, and forward, near the hinge box, which may fit in the car better than the other applications, which mount it near the dogbone. ------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
cognita semper
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La fiera
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FEB 17, 08:34 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
This reads like my story as well.
Rebuilt my 2.8 into a 3.1 w/ crank and rods, and a .040 overbore. Went with an inexpensive (but recommended) cam and lifter kit. Wiped a lobe almost immediately. I set the valve lash pretty low so it wouldn't be aggressive to the cam during break-in. Babied the car, didn't make a difference.
I'm determined to stick with the 3.1 I've built because it's the original motor, and I'm past the point of making this car something it isn't. I just want to keep it as I remember it since it was my first car.
But, if I had no history with this car, and it was new to me... I would ABSOLUTELY be doing the 3.9 V6/60 w/ 6-Speed manual swap... all... day... long. |
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Maybe you are using the wrong oil for break-in and change intervals and wrong and lifters. I've never wiped a cam lobe and I'm using WAY more spring pressures than anyone on these motors.
Synthetic oil doesn't mean is good for the flat tappet cam engine if it doesn't have the right additive package.
The lifters I use have a .021 pin hole on the face of the lifters that feeds pressurized oil to the cam lobe and lifter face, better than a roller lifter because it is much lighter.
But even though with that .021 pin hole supplying oil to the lobe, if you don't have an oil with at least 1100-1400ppm of ZDDP and Moly regarless it is synthetic or regular, you'll be missing not one but several lobes from the cam.
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pillagenburn
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JUN 09, 10:26 PM
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Anyone have any idea of the level of difficulty for this swap with a F40 6-speed and what it might cost? Or any write-ups?
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ChuckR
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JUN 10, 06:47 AM
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I haven't found a write up with costs. If you wanted to do a straight swap it would be one of the cheaper to do. I would check around on FB groups like 60* V6 and the forums there as well. The engines are cheap in the junkyards as they are not popular. the costs will also be different based on your skill level. Fabrication, welding, and engine tuning will all have a cost. There will be custom brackets, half shafts, engine, and trans mounts.
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Will
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JUN 10, 02:39 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by pillagenburn:
Anyone have any idea of the level of difficulty for this swap with a F40 6-speed and what it might cost? Or any write-ups? |
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The F40 required specific brackets, axles and shift linkage, so it adds noticeably to the cost & difficulty.
The upside is that you can get the entire powertrain from a 2006 Pontiac G6 GTP and install the entire package in the Fiero recipient.
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zkhennings
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JUN 10, 05:44 PM
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I am swapping an LZ9 into my Fiero currently, I am building it to make power higher in the RPMs. I have had the rotating assembly blue printed and the crank balanced to within a gram, cleaned up the heads, intake, polished the exhaust, stiffer valve springs and stronger keepers and retainers from an LS motor, cryo treated the biggest timing chain and sprockets I can get for the motor short of a double roller, and beefier custom length pushrods, and just to possibly improve the stock rocker arms (since there is no aftermarket for those) I had the rocker arms cryo treated as well. Oh and it has a cam going in it as well, and cam bearing spacers to accept the cam. The motor is currently going back together, and will soon be mounted on the cradle. I will be making custom headers to mate up to a custom exhaust, and it is being controlled with a Microsquirt ECU which is basically MS2. I have an Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator to deal with the returnless setup, and I will be fabbing custom fuel lines as well as modifying the coolant lines on the Fiero to end up in a more ideal location. I am using the stock Fiero 5 Speed for now with an 88 Fiero flywheel, if that blows up I will swap in an F23. I have been documenting everything and have a big spreadsheet to track all my costs, I am around 6K right now for the swap so far, but I haven't chose to do anything the easy way, and the only items left to procure are exhaust tubing bits. I intend to get this running and driving this summer and I plan to get some dyno numbers for it. The DOHC 60* V6 motors are cool, but I want to be able to work on my motor easily in the engine bay, and have a simpler, cheaper, lighter and more readily available motor. I am still figuring out my alternator mounting, but other than that I have most things sorted mechanically. The wiring and tuning will be new for me but it is pretty straight forwards, and there is a ton of documentation for Megasquirt, so I look forwards to figuring it all out. I don't have all the answers but I have quite a few now. [This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 06-10-2021).]
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ChuckR
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JUN 12, 07:17 AM
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Here is a question going through my head, has anyone looked at works best on this engine to increase compression ratio? By modern standards 9.8:1 that is stock on this engine is pretty low.
Can you deck the heads? if so how much before you need new pistons with reliefs?
Is there a domed piston that would work on this engine?
are there thinner gaskets?
This engine is designed for 87 octane, but running premium 93 pump gas in my area, 91 for some or E85 gives a lot of room for a high CR and avoiding det.
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zkhennings
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JUN 15, 10:28 AM
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Aftermarket LS1 pistons can be found in varying compression heights, and with various dishes and domes, they are the same OD as the stock pistons. An aftermarket LS1 rod or SBC rod can be found to work with this setup in varying lengths, but the crank will need to have the rod journals resized as they are slightly smaller in the LS and slightly smaller than that in the SBC. This does give you the opportunity to slightly stroke or destroke the motor if you offset how the journal is resized. It will take some research to find the correct combination that you are looking for. Seems as though the aftermarket rods and pistons will use a 0.927" floating wrist pin setup which is slightly smaller than stock. You would most likely need to cut valve reliefs in the pistons, take that into account when calculating dish/dome. I have an SBC rod and LS1 rod I bought for checking this all out, I will measure the width of the big end of the rods when I get to the garage later to confirm that they need no modification in width to work with the LZ9 crank.
Here is a stock LS1 piston in the LZ9 for fitment, no dome nor dish.
 [This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 06-15-2021).]
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