Replacing Manifolds and lots of questions (Page 1/2)
Zentaury JUN 29, 05:01 PM
I have performed my search, I have found very good write ups on this forum about the process to follow, the tools to have ready... and I am in the process to get a pair of manifolds (not ported) from someone here in the forum... but I still have some questions, being this my first "big task" to perform on the Fiero.


My car is a 1985GT 2.8 automatic with AC (AC is not working, I don't know why yet). Brand new battery, electrical is all working and the battery is not draining.


I had started with soaking the manifolds and exhaust bolts in PB blaster, and using a small flexible pipe to get the ones of the wall soaked too. I will be doing this once a day for a week before start to removing the bolts. Then I will go to remove the exhaust.

The car is due for an air filter change, oil change, spark plugs, spark plug wires, and probably needs a coolant flush. I have considerate to remove the rusted exhaust to have more room to replace the wall manifold but then I will put the same one back until budget allows it.

I am trying to do a plan to perform some tasks without doing double work about removing parts. The car can be sitting for 2-4 weeks (is not a daily driver, but I want to drive it before the rain and the winter comes back), I don't have a closed garage or roof but I can leave the car as a work in progress in my driveway. I have not enough tools to take the engine out and do al the work outside of the car.

Tasks:
Air filter change
Oil Change
Sparks plugs change
Spark plugs wires
The car seems to need replacement of the valve cover gaskets (upper plenum looks clean).
Exhaust manifold gaskets when replacing the manifolds
Coolant flush

First question is, what additional task could I perform at the same time? I am thinking of replacing the oil pan gasket after taking out the old oil, I don't see leakage from there for now but you never know. When I cold start the car, I get one or two seconds of white smog, maybe a valve seal leaking.

Is better to do this task after emptying the oil and the coolant and before refilling?

Planning to buy from the Fiero Store the exhaust manifold bolts and the Y pipe to manifold to replace the ones that I have.

I had so many questions in front of the engine and now in front of the computer I forgotten...

Here are some pictures of my situation. Some of the bolts might been drilled or are missing.











































Additional to that... this is the status in my air filter to intake hose. Is ripped next to the small hole.
Patrick JUN 29, 08:02 PM

Uh oh... this is not good.


quote
Originally posted by Zentaury:
pmbrunelle JUN 29, 11:55 PM
I don't think this mess can be fixed without pulling the heads from the engine.

It is possible to strip the engine down to the long-block, without removing the engine from the car. Just take parts off one at a time, and you'll get there.
I did just that about 10 years ago:


Spray WD-40 on the engine block so it doesn't get rusty from the humidity outdoors. When you're not working on the engine, put a garbage bag over it to keep out the dust/water.

The head with the broken boss for the exhaust port flange could be repaired (brazed?) by a competent machine/repair shop, but it would probably be cheaper/simpler to get a used Fiero head to replace it.

On the "good" head that probably has broken bolts stuck in it, I'd avoid using easy-outs. Easy-outs are how people turn a relatively easy stuck bolt problem into a worse broken-off easy-out problem. I like to weld nuts onto broken bolts to take them out. If you aren't comfortable dealing with broken bolts in the head, take the head to someone that knows what he's doing before you get in over your head with this.

Before reassembly, chase all threaded holes with a tap.

I'd suggest using the Volkswagen exhaust gaskets; they're cheaper and better than the stuff sold for Fieros.

Use anti-seize on your exhaust fasteners.

You'll have to adjust the valve lash as you reassemble the top of the engine, but that's fine; readjusting the lash is a good tune-up item.

If you don't think the oil pan gasket is leaking, don't touch it; it's not easy to do correctly from underneath the car.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 06-29-2019).]

Tempus_Fugit JUN 30, 06:17 PM
In Pix 3 & 12 it looks like part of the head casting is broken away.
Patrick JUN 30, 07:26 PM

quote
Originally posted by Tempus_Fugit:

In Pix 3 & 12 it looks like part of the head casting is broken away.



Yeah, that's what I was making reference to Here. As pmbrunelle stated, it's a mess.
Zentaury JUN 30, 10:15 PM
I could be able to get an engine from an 87 (the seller wants to sell only complete engine) but being local might be a “fair price”.

Are the heads from an 85 and 87 exactly the same?

Would be simple as swap them?

Thanks for your help
pmbrunelle JUN 30, 10:47 PM
Yes, all the V6 Fiero cylinder heads interchange.

It may not be a bad thing to obtain an entire engine; you would have lots of other spare parts which may come in handy some day.
Zentaury JUL 04, 10:56 PM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:
.

I'd suggest using the Volkswagen exhaust gaskets; they're cheaper and better than the stuff sold for Fieros.

Use anti-seize on your exhaust fasteners.

You'll have to adjust the valve lash as you reassemble the top of the engine, but that's fine; readjusting the lash is a good tune-up item.




Is worth it (to make easier the job to remove everything) get the Lisle 48500 or it doesn’t matter because i will replace one of the heads. Or the Lisle 16750 valve spring compressor? Or no needed if I am stripping everything on top.

The exhaust VW gasket is from the head to the manifold? Instead of the felpro gasket? I have seen the VW gaskets in pictures in another threads but I am not sure if they are to use instead of the Felpro...

[This message has been edited by Zentaury (edited 07-05-2019).]

pmbrunelle JUL 05, 06:51 AM

quote
Originally posted by Zentaury:
Is worth it (to make easier the job to remove everything) get the Lisle 48500 or it doesn’t matter because i will replace one of the heads.



That's a tool for professional mechanics who want to bang out a job quickly, rather than well done. If you re-adjust the valve lifter preload, then you know it's well done, rather than copying the possibly poorly-done job of the previous mechanic. Even if the previous mechanic didn't make a mistake, the parts will wear over time, so re-adjusting to compensate the wear is good. If you change head gaskets, that affects the preload setting as well.

Furthermore, I don't think the tool is applicable when you remove a head, because the head cannot (or rather should not) be re-installed with the pushrods and rockers in place, forcing the valves open as the head bolts are torqued.

Adjusting the valve lifter preload is not difficult or time consuming, except for one caveat.

If the harmonic balancer has slipped (a common Fiero problem), then the timing marks on the perimeter of the balancer will be off. If you follow the timing marks for the valve adjustment, but they happen to be wrong, then the valve adjustment will be done incorrectly.

With at least one of the cylinder heads off the engine, turn over the engine to bring any exposed cylinder to its top dead center. Then, look at the harmonic balancer; the 0 degree mark on the graduated scale should be right over one of the notches on the harmonic balancer. All cylinders have a notch on the harmonic balancer corresponding with their TDC event.


quote
Originally posted by Zentaury:
Or the Lisle 16750 valve spring compressor?



You only need a valve spring compressor if you want to remove the valves from the heads, once you have the head off the car.

Otherwise, the heads are installed/removed from the engine block with the valves in place.

Taking out the valves to inspect their condition wouldn't be a bad idea. If there is carbon buildup on the intake valves, you could clean that off with a wirewheel.

Then, if needed, you could lap the valves into their seats, and any severely pitted valves could be replaced.


quote
Originally posted by Zentaury:
The exhaust VW gasket is from the head to the manifold? Instead of the felpro gasket? I have seen the VW gaskets in pictures in another threads but I am not sure if they are to use instead of the Felpro...



Yes, the VW gaskets are to seal the exhaust manifold to the head.

If you use the VW gaskets, you do not use the Fel-Pro gasket. It's one or the other.

What I got (and fits) for my Fiero is IAP P/N 111251261B.
https://www.rockauto.com/en.../?partnum=111251261B

You need 6 of them.
ltlfrari JUL 05, 09:24 AM
Replace exhaust bolts with a couple of sets of Dorman 03411 FORD stud kits.You'll need two sets because there's only 10 studs/nuts in each kit!
The bolt/stud behind the AC bracket is a sod to get in/out though. I ended up removing the bracket just to get at that one

------------------
Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!

Dave

www.ltlfrari.com