Looking for that 88 Cradle (Page 2/2)
xzeion FEB 08, 10:35 PM
Thank you for your posts on the handling topic! I would love to hear opinions on how the 87 vs 88 cradles are on high horsepower cars. Do the 87s design flaws become more apparently when you are pushing 300 wheel vs stock? Does the 88 rear end improve high speed handling? Honestly I image a good 87 cradle setup will be fantastic on stock power..... Buuuut I don't plan to stay there forever.
wftb FEB 09, 02:50 PM
Putting an 88 cradle and suspension will improve the ride and the overall feel of the car. And you get the better vented brakes at the rear of the car while retaining a parking brake. If you have all the parts to do it it seems to be an easy swap. The major complaints about the 86-87 GT were the heavy steering, snap throttle oversteer, and an overall loose feeling when driven hard. They called the clutch linkage sub par(no change in that for 88). The one major surprise for me reading the C&D test from Feb 1986 is they didn't gripe about the brakes. Even though it took 200 feet to stop from 70 mph. Maybe that was good back then? .80 G on the skidpad was not bad for the time (same as that year MR-2), considering not many cars pulled better than .85 in the 80's.
Modern high performance tires in a 205 front / 245 rear sizes will get rid of snap throttle oversteer and give you pretty high G numbers too. Stock 88's had the same problem but to a lesser degree. And a different front sway bar combined with the right size rear sway bar will help too. But the car will never be as smooth as an 88.

But the 88 suspension has some minor things I don't like. I am not a fan of strut suspensions on a sports car and I do not like a semi trailing arm suspension either. There are mounts that are single shear and dependant on the strength of the bolt to prevent flexing.And if you go to Bloozberry's thread in the costruction zone you can see detailed charts about how it performs geometry wise.

In conclusion, I think the 88 cradle swap is a much better way to get an increase in ride and performance than a bumpsteer kit, all poly, solid cradle mounts and changing 1 sway bar and adding a rear sway bar on the stock 86 GT. Not the way I did it, but I love to do my own thing and not follow the crowd.

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86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

mrossum FEB 12, 02:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I am going to go against the grain with this statement. My 87GT handles every bit as well as an 88. If there is a difference it is very very minor. The modifications to achieve this include KYB struts and shocks (they are stiffer) , a larger front Addco anti-sway bar, an added matching Addco rear sway bar and poly bushings on suspension members and on the cradle. I maintain that unless you are a profound road race enthusiast; for every day use and even for drag racing you wouldn't feel the difference in handling.




for some reason, Dennis, I feel like your every response on here is diminishing to the original poster. why can you not just either abstain, or answer the question asked? while I am sure your vast knowledge is rivaled by few, you are not the absolute authority, and we are certainly entitled to pursue any direction we wish for OUR cars.

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87 coupe 4 cyl, 5 speed

pmbrunelle FEB 12, 09:31 PM
Dennis shared his opinion, and his comment was in no way condescending to OP.

A forum is a place for the exchange of differing opinions; that's what discussion is.

Your post policing was not needed.
Rickady88GT FEB 14, 10:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

Dennis shared his opinion, and his comment was in no way condescending to OP.

A forum is a place for the exchange of differing opinions; that's what discussion is.

Your post policing was not needed.



I have to agree. Dennis is probably correct and I do not see an abrasive response. BUT 88's rule, just let the rest rust LOL.
but seriously, I will only own an 88, but that is just my preference. I have had an 87GT and in stock form I could tell the difference. 88 is better, in my opinion. That being said, if a person modified an 87 correctly it could out perform a stock 88. But modify them both and compare....who knows, I guess it is not worth dividing over, just have fun.

For the record, the best modification I ever did to the suspension was to add fast ratio power steering.

There are so many ways to modify the front and rear suspension of all Fieros, but the bottom line is "what is the goal of the modification?" Drag racing, street racing, cruising with a lower stance, wider?? The modification needs to meet the need or it will not perform to expectations.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 02-14-2019).]

Will FEB 15, 09:51 AM
There are plusses and minuses to both.

REAR suspension only

'84-'87:
Con:
-Bad geometry all around: Pro-squat, bump steer, less aggressive camber curve than '88's have.
-Big gooey bushings at both the control arms and the cradle
-Weak stock wheel bearings
-Weak stock outer CVs
-No stock rear sway bar
-Terrible brakes

Pro:
-Can swap in A-body or U-body knuckles for 27 or 33 spline 5x115 wheel bearings + larger brakes
-Probably can accommodate C6 Corvette ZO6 33 spline wheel bearings with minimal machining on said knuckles
-Most Fiero brake upgrades are designed for '84-'87 suspension

1988:
Con:
-Weak stock wheel bearings
-More difficult upgrade path for wheel bearings requiring more machining
-No easy upgrade path for stock outer CVs
-Outer lateral link pivot in knuckle can become damaged or worn

Pro:
-Better geometry: Good anti-squat, minimal bump steer, more aggressive camber curve
-Easy to improve geometry: raising rear roll center is not hard and has huge positive impact on handling
-Easy to install rod ends in the lateral links
-FACTORY sway bar on V6 cars

SAME:
-Both adjustable for camber and toe
-Same range of static camber adjustment available for both
-Same Koni struts fit both
mrossum FEB 19, 02:46 PM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

Dennis shared his opinion, and his comment was in no way condescending to OP.

A forum is a place for the exchange of differing opinions; that's what discussion is.

Your post policing was not needed.



Let me get this straight: His opinion is welcomed as an exchange of different idea(s), but my opinion is "post policing" and not an exchange of differing idea(s)?

[This message has been edited by mrossum (edited 02-22-2019).]

pmbrunelle FEB 19, 06:30 PM

quote
Originally posted by mrossum:
His opinion is welcomed as an exchange of different idea(s)



Correct


quote
Originally posted by mrossum:
my opinion is "post policing"



Correct


quote
Originally posted by mrossum:
not an exchange of differing idea(s)?



In a thread about cradles and suspension, on-topic "differing ideas" relate to cradles and suspension.

Complaining about Dennis while he's behaving nicely, while being a differing idea, is not welcome.
mrossum FEB 22, 11:00 AM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


In a thread about cradles and suspension, on-topic "differing ideas" relate to cradles and suspension.

Complaining about Dennis while he's behaving nicely, while being a differing idea, is not welcome.



original post was looking to BUY a cradle. he was not asking for an opinion on merits of the change-over. with that in mind, Dennis responded with an opinion on the merits, which TOTALLY missed the point of the original post. If he asked for opinions on the change-over, Dennis would have been right in line with his OPINION. I don't take shots across the bow just because I don't like an opinion.

[This message has been edited by mrossum (edited 02-22-2019).]