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| My stabilizer bar mounting theories.... (Page 3/3) |
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Frenchrafe
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MAR 18, 04:10 AM
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Came across this thread and I must admit that it is very interesting for us who trackday our cars.
My car has '87 suspension all round, but with an added rear swaybar.
This swaybar is fitted underneath and is very close to the subframe and with quite short links to the arms. I don't see how to increase the angles without having ground clearance problems?
However, the addition of this swaybar dramatically improved handling and I can really "punch it" hard on corners without spinning out.
I do have a certain amount of body roll never the less:
I will be testing the spacer block mod on the front swaybar - one day soon!
I made my own front subframe braces, so no problem to modify them.
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'87 Fiero GT. 3800 turbo. Sticky tyres. Driven hard!
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Z3SpdDmn
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MAR 30, 12:11 PM
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I'll post my comments to this thread that I made in a different thread:
| quote | Originally posted by Z3SpdDmn:
That was a good read and good experimentation on your part. I believe the result of your experiment could be attributed to having dialed in more understeer via lateral load transfer bias (reducing DTO), but improved turn-in with that much stiffer front bar. Props for coming up with a way to fine tune your bars since you don't have adjustable bars with various holes to easily affect the overall stiffness and resulting lateral load transfer bias.
I've been through this type of tuning on OEM work (I was the vehicle dynamics performance engineer on the Charger/Challenger/300 a couple years ago). For example, in a package I was tuning for the Challenger R/T, reducing the front bar stiffness resulted in a slower initial steering response, but reduced understeer once the weight transferred.
In the case of bushings, they're effectively only changing the response of the bar to the input. Not so much outright rate. There was some discussion on rubber bushings adding rate and "bonded" bushings are used in some OEM applications to add rate to the bar without adding mass. In non-bonded bushings, like ours, they would only affect response and compliance.
Also note that in pure pitch and dive scenarios, the bars are not in the picture at all because both sides move together. They do not add any spring rate. I'm not sure if that was fully understood or not from the post.
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Anthony
'88 Fiero GT 5-spd "barn find"
www.DriveFasterNow.com
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Z3SpdDmn
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MAR 30, 12:17 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Patrick:
Okay, I'd love to get your (and anybody else's) feedback on how replacing OEM rubber sway bar mount bushings with poly bushings affects handling. I've been led to believe for years here that poly sway bar bushings would help stiffen the suspension. When I stated this in a well known Subaru forum, I was "schooled" by a member there who insisted that rubber bushings effectively increased the sway bar's diameter (compared to poly) due to the rubber bushings "gripping" the bar. In all the years I've been here at PFF, I don't recall this argument ever being put forth.
The fella who wished to "school" me appears to be educated on the matter, but I'm also familiar with the expression... bullsh!t baffles brains.
I'd appreciate it if several of you could have a look at This thread. My user name there is Vancouver98STi, and the action picks up at post #8 (although I first appear in post #4). My nemesis in this thread is mrsaturn7085.
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Patrick, as I stated in another thread, some OEM applications include "bonded" bushings, so that the bushing is actually adhered to the bar. The twist of the bushing adds some rate to the bar, allowing the bar to be slightly smaller, lighter, quieter, and cheaper than if it twisted freely. This would also add a little bit of spring rate when driving straight ahead, where a swaybar is normally decoupled from the springs in a straight line.
I am not aware of any aftermarket applications of bonded swaybar bushings. It requires knowing almost exactly what the static ride height will be (and not modifying it). Otherwise, the bushings would be in a constantly stressed state and they would create a variance to the bar rate as they passed through their neutral position since the bushing's neutral position wouldn't coincide with static ride height.
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Anthony
'88 Fiero GT 5-spd "barn find"
www.DriveFasterNow.com[This message has been edited by Z3SpdDmn (edited 03-30-2020).]
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