2.4 Ecotec swapper info / options. (Page 2/5)
pHoOl OCT 17, 12:36 AM
I've been dreaming of an ecotec swap ever since I bought a new 04 Ion Redline. One question... do you get to keep the whole trunk when doing a turbo? Thinking someday might do an LHU or LNF swap but would like to keep the trunk in case I want to do a weekend getaway.
css9450 OCT 17, 07:01 AM

quote
Originally posted by wftb:

This is a must and I recomend getting a tensioner from Crate Engine Depot to make sure you get the latest version. A lot of dealers have earlier versions on hand and they will sell them to you because they don't know any better. The newest tensioner is the 3rd design.



Interesting... I didn't realize there was a 3rd version. I probably have the second design, replaced as part of a "silent recall" when the car was in for one of its rare visits to the dealer. I have the 2.4 in my Cobalt. It has 210,000 miles.... Maybe if the body rusts away I can keep the engine for my Fiero!
wftb OCT 17, 07:14 PM

quote
Originally posted by pHoOl:

I've been dreaming of an ecotec swap ever since I bought a new 04 Ion Redline. One question... do you get to keep the whole trunk when doing a turbo? Thinking someday might do an LHU or LNF swap but would like to keep the trunk in case I want to do a weekend getaway.


You could keep the whole trunk with a turbo motor if you tilted the engine forward a bit and ran a 16G turbo mounted up high. On my swap the bottom of the trunk is gone and I had to put a bump in it to accomadate the 20G/Hahn manifold I run now. You can get 2 big duffle bags in the trunk without the bottom so no problem for a weekend getaway.
OntarioKev OCT 17, 09:20 PM
I probably have more experience with the Ecotecs then most people on this forum. I have tuned a little over 40 Cobalts over the years, the majority of which were Supercharged or Turboed (LSJ or LNF).

I have tuned a few 2.2 and 2.4 engines and can tell you they aren't that great without forced induction. Most of the 2.4s with I/H/E and a tune end up in the 160 Whp range (if I remember correctly) on the dyno I used.

Tuning on them is quite easy as you can use HP Tuners on the factory computer, and it is good enough for most situations. I have a friend who has a 2.0 LSJ in his Fiero, and this is probably the best engine for a Fiero swap. If you ge the 2.0 LNF (factory turbo), you have to deal with the high pressure fueling for the direct injection as well as all the other stuff for the swap.

If you get an LSJ (supercharged), and stay on the supercharger, a simple fuel injector, pulley and tune will get you in the 250 to 260WHP range if you have the right cooling (air-water intercooler on them).

But one of my favorite options, is swapping the blower to a turbo. It can easily be done with an intake manifold/throttlebody from the LE5, and then a lot of the factory pieces from the LNF (turbo/exhaust manifold, this is what my friend did on his Fiero).

Whats nice about this is you get decent power (usually 260 to 270 WHP to be safe), but you get an amazing 300 to 320 ft/lbs of Tq (vs the blower is usually in the 230-250 tq range). It leaves you in a great upgrade for the turbo later on, as ZZPerformance sells a bolt on turbo upgrade that is good for 450+ whp, with decent spool. The reason you typically get lower whp/wtq on the LSJ turbo swap with LNF turbo is the boost control. Unless you go full aftermarket standalone you are typically left with fairly limited boost control on the LSJ computer (aftermarket boost controller, typically set for one setting), vs the LNF computer which allows you to vary the duty cycle at different RPMS. Because of this you have to go with a lower boost setting then you would on an LNF, if you want to be safe.

I am willing to bet the Le5 would be less of an improvement than you would like for the work involved. I would suggest finding a cheap LSJ donor with a running engine/transmission so that you have everything you need for the swap, and if you are adventurous, do the turbo swap as well. It makes for a really fun car.
wftb OCT 17, 10:11 PM
What people have to remember is what we are replacing with an ecotec. Throw out either Fiero engines and replace them with even just a stock 2.2 eco and you get a faster, better handling car than what you had before. You can use any ecotec engine you want and get a huge improvement. I went with a built 2.2 because all the parts are readily available and the motor and everything to make it go only cost me 1000.00 .I have since spent a lot of money on it over the years but this is a hobby car and thats what happens. One bright spot to me is that now you can buy a super or turbocharged Cobalt fairly cheaply and just swap everything in to your fiero. I am very happy with the power from my 2.2, I recently made a big mistake and put a 2" exhaust on it and wasted 2 months until I realized it was at 1/2" too small but it is all part of the learning curve. I have been driving my turbo 2.2 Fiero 86GT for 10 years now. I also tune with HP tuners. Get your friend to do a writeup here on his car, it would be nice to see more ecotec fieros.
Raydar OCT 18, 05:44 PM
My situation is that I don't want to go boosted or DI. Again, that's just a personal preference.

I'm prepared to follow up with most anything that I decide to do, but I was looking for the most bang for the buck, with an NA motor. And also something that won't bore me after driving my 4.9 / 5 speed (torque monster) Formula. And yes, I know that most anything else will have a totally different "flavor". That's not altogether a bad thing.

The other positive aspect of this swap is that the ecotec came with the F23. Roger Thelin sells mounts/brackets for the whole effing setup.

With all of that said, if it gets too complex, I'll just go with the LZ9 or LGD engine, with the NVG T-550 (aka Beretta Getrag) which I am already quite familiar with.
That one is 240 FWHP, right out of the box. Installed in a Fiero, with a free-flowing exhaust and intake, I would expect an additional 10 or so. And that's before I do any modding or tuning.
And it will still have that sexy V6-60 exhaust note.

Again... thanks for everyone's comments. All are appreciated. I know nothing about ecotecs, other than what I've read.
Keep 'em coming.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-18-2017).]

OntarioKev OCT 18, 06:57 PM
So just to give my perspective on performance, I have never driven a stock Fiero. Mine had a bone stock 3800SC with a 4spd Muncie when I picked it up from my friend (he got rid of it to work on his Ecotec Fiero).

Coming from my Cobalt SS I found it quite slow. It wasn't until I did some major modifications to the 3800SC that I liked the performance.

With that said you will never likely get more then 170WHP out of an NA ecotec. If you are looking for some good performance NA a 4 cylinder is not for you, unless you find some high reving Honda engine. May I ask why you want to stay away from forced induction?
Raydar OCT 18, 07:25 PM

quote
Originally posted by OntarioKev:
... May I ask why you want to stay away from forced induction?



Sure. Mostly space constraints, and my (lack of) fabrication/welding skills.
I'm looking for something that I can mostly bolt in. I'm aware that most anything, within reason, can be made to fit into a Fiero. It's just a question of whether I could make it happen.
I could possibly go for an SC motor, but I don't care anything about turbos. Again, just personal preference. I'd still prefer to go NA.

But again, the tradeoff is complexity. If it gets much more complicated than a simple bolt-in, I'll just do the V6. Probably an LZ9 or similar. It's been done, with the LX9 and it's variants, repeatedly.
The "electronic" aspects do not intimidate me. (Perhaps that makes me foolish.) Fabrication, OTOH, is not a skill I possess.

The LE5 was just another option. The availability of aftermarket Polaris Slingshot pieces was something that made it more... inviting - than the typical ecotec swap. At least initially.
(Of course, some of those whackos were posting about swapping in LS engines, so there's that. )

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-18-2017).]

pHoOl OCT 18, 11:28 PM
OntarioKev, I'd be curious your perspective on this idea. My understanding is the lsj was a supercharge d version of the lk9 saab 2.0T motor. That said, the lk9 would have same fueling parts as the lsj (not high pressure for direct injection). Also itd be turbo from the start so perhaps swapping a K04 from an LNF would work, or if not I'd think the manifold and turbo from newer lnf would bolt up.

From what i hear Saab triptronic is harder to tune, but if the sensors are the same, couldn't you just swap a refular turbo ecotec computer to control it?

The saab 2.0s (ecotec ones) seem to be fairly cheap at wreckers or craigslist compared to lnf/lhu.
wftb OCT 19, 05:40 PM
Do a search on member 4thfiero. He has a turbo 2.4 .