The Turbo 3500 F23 swap (Page 71/79)
ericjon262 AUG 06, 10:05 PM
I hadn't touched the car in a hot minute, about a month ago, i started working on intercooler plumbing, ran a hose along the gas tank, and used one of the stock heater lines to run back (the line is now plumbed into the passenger coolant tube). I hadn't gotten around to mounting the pump or the tank yet though. today, I figured the best method available to mount the pump was to put a standoff on the underside of the tank, and then put the pump bracket on the standoff.





My aluminum welds still suck... I haven't has much practice though.

I bent a few pieces of aluminum flat stock to make mounting brackets, if I had more foresight, I could have made two identical brackets, but the pump mount on the underside of the tank interfered.



in the top of that picture you can see 2 red power leads, those both go back to the fuse panel installed at the battery. I'm going to attach another smaller aux fuse panel and three relays in front of the master cylinder, one for the pump, and the other two will be high and low beams.

The pump was sent with a pigtail, I elected to make my own, instead to avoid having a splice in the wiring, the pigtail sent had a red and a blue wire, my dumbass assumed the red wire was the positive lead, and the blue was ground, which should have been a fairly safe assumption... it wasn't. I jumped the pump off of a M18 battery, it moved a good bit of water at a pretty decent pressure, but when I swapped the leads, it was probably double the flow! DOH! I haven't decided whether I want to finish the wiring tomorrow, or work on the Gran Damn. For now, I plan to wire the pump relay to a IGN+ source for a trigger, eventually, I'll use a binary output on the microsquirt to control it, probably trigger it to run when ECT >100 or something like that.

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"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

ericjon262 AUG 07, 10:15 PM
I mounted the Bluesea fuse block and four 40 amp relays to a piece of aluminum flat stock, originally I was going to use riv nuts to secure the piece to the front bulkhead, but I noticed the studs that would hold the sunroof air deflector and decided to use those instead. Doing this makes the bracket a little long, and bigger than it needs to be, but it also made it easier to install. later I may take it off and trim it down, but it's also aluminum, so it's not like the weight penalty is excessive, and it's not in the way of anything. as of this moment, only the 3rd relay is in use, the first and second are reserved as headlight relays, and the fourth is just there for future growth, maybe EPS? I also have 5 more fuse positions available in the block that don't have a planned use yet, I may use one for a line lock, but otherwise I'm not planning much more expansion.



as per the usual, I said I was going to do one thing, and did something else...

I pulled a few schematics and couldn't find an IGN+ to trigger the pump relay with, so I decided to go ahead and wire it in proper. I'm using the high speed fan pin on the C100(F7) to feed the trigger through, and I set it up to run at any time over 200 RPM. The pump is kinda loud, I can trigger it based on two parameters, so I set it up to run any time the engine is over 1200 RPM -OR- manifold air temp is over 110 F, that way, if it's hot and needs the loop to cool down, it will run, but it also won't run if it's not needed.

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"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

zkhennings AUG 08, 10:59 AM
Nice progress! Have you been driving the car in the meantime or has it been sitting?
ericjon262 AUG 08, 09:06 PM
unfortunately, mostly sitting, I've been pretty busy working on a bunch of projects, like fixing an S-10 for my brother, and 5 speed swapping a 2003 Grand Am (Details on RFT "Gran Damn"), and getting my Fatboy back roadworthy.

I really need to get the Gran Damn put back together, it's taking up space in the garage for my Duramax Suburban project...

the intercooler appears to be functioning, but I think there might be an air bubble in it, it MAT is can still get hotter than I would like to see with a quickness, that said they also drop relatively quick too. Peak here is 151F, running on straight water. I might loosen the fitting on the top and try and bleed the system to see if that helps. I'm also noticing the MAT sensor is heat soaking a little bit too.

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"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

zkhennings AUG 09, 02:52 PM
Intercooler coolant capacity and heat exchanger large enough? Just wondering if the system could be getting saturated seeing the baseline temps creep like that and never really levelling off.
ericjon262 AUG 09, 09:47 PM

quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:

Intercooler coolant capacity and heat exchanger large enough? Just wondering if the system could be getting saturated seeing the baseline temps creep like that and never really levelling off.



ambient temps are in the mid 90's, and I was a little low on coolant, I haven't had a chance to get another log, my headlights wouldn't go up when I tried leaving for work this morning... Turns out the switch gave up the ghost. I plan to drive it to work tomorrow and take some logs.

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"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

ericjon262 AUG 11, 08:20 PM
The intercooler performance appears to be adequate, but I would still like to instrument temperature in 4 places, Air into the intercooler, air out,
and the water side in/out. the TMAP sensors measure both temperature and pressure, which would allow me to see the pressure drop across the intercooler, and give me an idea of if it's becoming an excessive restriction.

here's a link to the TMAP sensors.

https://www.bmotorsports.co...php/products_id/1721


I checked my IAT's before and after a quick run around the block, temperatures rose from 95F to 131F and back to 95F in about 43 seconds. from the 131F peak back to 95F was about 30 seconds.



The temperature dip at tip in leads me to believe there's some heat soak going on, and the initial flow of air across the sensor is lowering the sensor body temperature. the TMAP sensors should be further from heat sources than the current MAT sensor, which should help with heat soak issues hopefully. I intend to relocate the current IAT sensor to a pre-turbo location to provide indication of temperature rise across the turbo as well.

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"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

ericjon262 AUG 18, 09:41 PM
got to the dragstrip, car running ok, feeling pumped, ready to make a pass, good, bad, or ugly...

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

Test and tune, "Canceled due to unfavorable weather"

erg. oh well.

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"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

ericjon262 AUG 21, 02:02 AM


the short dip in TPS was the 1-2 Shift, note RPM goes to the limit, and wheel speed doesn't correlate, clutch didn't hold, didn't even slow down... I guess the sensible thing to do will be to get the engine built, and handle the the new clutch at the same time...I'll need another F23 for mockup purposes.

in other news, I did spring for some insulation that I'm going to put on the exhaust, which should help immensely with underhood temps.hopefully the front manifold isn't as difficult as I am expecting. I'm also hoping it helps keep heat out of the intercooler, and passenger compartment. it should be here Tuesday.

I've been working on road tuning the car some, I found a very detailed spec sheet for my injectors, put in the data from them, and the engine appears to be running much better, and dialing in a bit better as well.

https://drive.google.com/fi...W2X4B3ofKDpqJT_/view

inputting those values also seemed to make other things work better/give more realistic seeming data, IE, MPG per the MS3 seems like reasonable numbers, instead of some bonkers numbers like I was getting before.

I also rescaled my RPM graduations on my tables, increasing resolution in the lower parts of the table where the engine is operated steady state. I've also contemplated enabling table switching again to have a ton of resolution, but I also don't really see a need for that much resolution ATM, and it makes tuning a bit trickier, because I would no longer be able to view one table at a time, so if I ever do that, it will be after I have the tune very well dialed without switching, and just increase the resolution.

I kinda wish the AFR table was the same size as the VE/ignition tables so that the RPM graduations could match, the mild OCD tendencies are bothered by it...

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"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

zkhennings AUG 24, 03:08 PM
Check out this vid, it should bring you right to where he starts showing how he used MS to actually determine the values for his injectors, this may help dial your fueling in even more precisely.

https://youtu.be/9ALDDK5u5Q8?t=146