LK9+F40 (Saab turbo LSJ) swap (Page 8/9)
KillerFrogg APR 30, 04:02 AM
Cylindrical or spherical or flat, either way it doesn't matter much to me. Not looking for more clearance in the trunk, just water tight. All things considered the trunk being rusted out is low on my list.

Spent today cutting out the driver side upper frame rail. Not much left of it at this point but all of the rust is gone and there are still good pickup points in all the important locations to weld to. The top section of the frame rail was in good shape as well so that will make things a bit easier.
Tomorrow I'm digging into the passenger side frame rail. While that's going on my brother is going to start cutting steel and rebuilding the driver side. Mig welder is in, just need to get a bottle of C25. Just going to tack everything up with the tig.
Will APR 30, 08:30 AM

quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:


I think the strut is still a more limiting factor though isn't it?




The only body metal cutting required, anyway. Yeah, removable parts have to be modified or changed out
Cobaltdan08 FEB 26, 12:58 AM
Bro, I am thoroughly impressed with your build! Beautiful intake design! I just got a little worried about a few things since your last post was like a year ago! I thought maybe you ran into some these issues and I want to see how you worked them out.

Here's my concerns:
-B207 EXH cam hex socket for cam position sensor very likely not be timed correctly since it was originally used for vacuum. This will cause issues! There are many solutions to this if you search around and get creative or just ask me if your interested.
-B207 Crankshaft reluctor wheel is very slightly different than all other ecotecs. You may be able to work this out with the Halltec? But otherwise you will need to pull the crank and swap reluctors!
-Saw your struggle with the dash gauges, I wonder why not just use an OBD2 dash and retire that original cluster? That's my plan anyway, just a tablet/phone running Torque app paired to an OBD2 adapter.


I am a long time ecotec builder doing nearly the same build into my 87 GT.
Not to thread-jack but just to add where I'm coming from. I have tons of 2.0L, 2.2L ecotec parts from all variants so I've ended up with a built 2.2 L61 and a F23 trans controlled by a 2007 E37 ECM w/ fly by wire. LSJ LIM w/ ZZP turbo adapter, LNF K04 turbo kit.

good luck!

[This message has been edited by Cobaltdan08 (edited 02-26-2021).]

KillerFrogg FEB 26, 03:24 PM
Thanks for the bump!
Progress slowed during the summer, work got crazy busy and whenever I was working on the car I was more concerned about progress than photos at the time. the engine is properly in, engine mounts are done and bolted to the car. Full brake and clutch line replacement, bigger radiator, lots of little things but all in the name of progress with what time I had. I will be doing an update post once the car is back out of storage mid spring. It is in the back corner of the barn behind two boats my brother's project bmw and a bunch of other stuff so it is on an 'eventually' schedule lol.

As for the things you mentioned, I am aware of the cam hex insert on the saabs is just there and not indexed in any particular way. Running an aftermarket ECU this is not an issue thankfully. Same for the crank wheel. Haltech does have a profile that works with the LSJ, as another user here already has his LSJ swapped car running with the same ECU I have. Worst case I make my own profile or give them a call and details and get a profile made. Another 'eventually' time scale thing but it is something I have had in the back of my mind.

The dash wasn't so much a struggle as a puzzle or because I can challenge really. I want to retain the original dash for a few reasons. Top of the list is that I would like the entire cabin to be as factory as possible. And so far aside from a RetroSound radio that matches the original close enough most people won't notice it's new. 2nd is just for time and simplicity. Not having to cut up or modify or make a harness for a dash, or go through and delete or digitize all the factory dash signals and stuff. Makes my life easier later if I want to put in a 120mph speedo (tho this is mutually exclusive with factory cruise control, because 84s are weird. Why in a minute) or move the engine to another chassis. The signal converter is just one small board that will live inline with the ECU speedo output, so no modification or wiring changes on the original chassis harness or hardware.

On that same note is that I would like to use the factory cruise. Same deal. It worked when it came out of the car, and the 84s are weird in that the cruise electronics are part of the speedo board. There is no 2nd crusise controller box like the later cars. On a time&effort vs reward scale, it was easier to get my aftermarket ECU connected to my original speedo in my spare time at work than the other options. I don't gain anything from changing to a modern dash really, and am more likely to loose original stuff if I do. I don't need to see boost or afr or EGTs or anything aside speed, tach and oil pressure once the tuning is done. Yes, it can be done well, but eh. I like the original 80s look and feel and the challenge was enjoyable.

I have thought about getting one of the turbo headers for when I eventually need more turbo, but I most likely will end up making my own.
All depends on what the little baby Td04-14 can do. I just want to be able to eventually touch 300hp on a chassis dyno for the because I can factor. It's going to live at 250 or less 98% of the time. In not expecting the factory Saab turbo to do I but one can hope.
They all mount the turbo quite high on the engine, and that means a bug chunk of the upper trunk goes away. Right now with the Saab header, and the factory turbo flipped upside down with my adapter, and the center section re-clocked as needed, it sits much lower and I only needed to remove a small sliver of the trunk for cleareance for heat shields. I could have made enough room with a hammer If I wanted to but I would like to have a trunk and not an oven. It's a summer car and warm beer by time you get to the beach is no fun!

[This message has been edited by KillerFrogg (edited 02-26-2021).]

Will FEB 26, 04:48 PM

quote
Originally posted by KillerFrogg:

On that same note is that I would like to use the factory cruise. Same deal. It worked when it came out of the car, and the 84s are weird in that the cruise electronics are part of the speedo board. There is no 2nd crusise controller box like the later cars.



The later electrocruise would probably greatly simplify your cruise control needs, then. You'd just wire up an extension cord for the cruise switches to make it back to the engine compartment, then all the cruise wiring would be in the engine compartment harness and you would not have to modify the interior harness, but could have more-or-less modern cruise control.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 02-26-2021).]

KillerFrogg MAR 03, 12:55 PM
Going through my phone and realized I do have a few photos from over the summer while I was working on the car. Not everything but some of the good bits.
Things not included:
-Sub frame mods and lower trans mounts. No lower engine mount like some of the other EcoTech kits or factory setup.
-Fuel system on the tank side. Nothing crazy. Just hard line to AN adapters where the original soft lines slipped on at the back of the thank
-Driver side trans mount/hanger
-Big rad install, upper rad brace stretch to fit more to my liking, cutting up and modding a factory radiator to make a permeant till replaced temporary intercooler heat exchanger
-Initial fit up if the water system for the W/A intercooler.
-Proper battery cables from the front mount back to the engine. Both + and gnd cables because I feel be better about doing it that way rather than using the chassis for main battery ground.
-Replacing the cut up AC lines that were on this chassis with the good ones from the old car.
-Brake and clutch line replacement. Off the shelf stainless brake kit for $150. I am totally cool with that, the cost is well worth the time saved because F**K doing a ton of flares. Buying the matching SS clutch line for $190?? ehhh thats a bit much if you ask me. $100 and I would have. Did custom with easy bend copper alloy tube. Only notable bit, I am using the factory SAAB soft line from the HTOB to the hard line. No special parts or adapters. I think others have used a BMW part? not sure. Just used the correct M12 (i think) male flare fitting on the end of the clutch hard line to match with female on the end of the Saab soft line.
-RUST REPAIR. Lots of rust repair on the frame rails, bottom of the strut towers, and a few other spots critical to what ever I was working on at the time. Still need to do trunk corners and holes in the floor pans. Was (lots, unfortunately) of good practice MIG on sheet metal.
-HVAC R&R and reinstall
-Replacing the front cabin jute insulation with aluminum foil backed fiberglass what came out of the car was trashed and I bought a WAY bigger roll than I intended to. It showed up on a pallet.. LOL
-Swapped to the front cross member from the old car because not (as) rusty. The steering rack from the old car was tighter too so I just moved it all over as a unit.

Photo time!!

Stripping the underside of the old chassis of the pristine coolant lines and AC lines. Its never not fun to thrash an old chassis around with a tractor.


Pulled the fuel filler neck the easy way. The one on the new chassis was rotten. There is a running theme here with the current car.


Aside from the under car lines, this is the pile of parts that got saved. Front cross member needed some rust repair on the bracket pad, but the upper brackets them selves were in good shape.


Good bye 3d printed mock up parts. Hello bling.


More air filter, more better. Too big to fit in the engine bay. Thankyou to K&N for providing (basic but usable) drawings and dimensions on their website. Cad the filter up and printed a mockup before I bought it to see where it would fit if at all. The ~$5 worth very worth it. Original plan was engine bay, with a box around it, where the cruise system went front driver side engine bay. No go on that one. New location is driver side wheel well, between the liner and chassis. Not a ton of room but more than enough. Will still have a box around it, and will have an inlet from the factory quarter panel inlet. The the tube size on the rubber boot that bolts to that vent going into the water separator? 3in! Overkill much for 92hp? Yes. Worked out perfect for me? Very much.


Got the shifter bolted in and cables installed to make sure I don't use any of the space they need. Also mocked up the turbo intake side piping. Back wall, up the frame rail, then turn out through a yet to be cut hole into the space in front of the fender wheel liner. I'm super happy with how clean it looks, and even more happy about not pulling engine bay temp air into the engine. The Cobalt W/A intercooler is going to have a hard enough job to do. No reason to make it work harder.


Above view


Potato camera. I think I was mostly looking at the fuel rail? eh. Using the factory SAAB rail. Cut the far end of the rail off where the original fuel pressure regulator was welded on a block off plate. The rail inlet dumps into the rail its self, then fuel flowed through the factory regulator, then from the red back through a small tube inside the rail to the outlet. The orifice in the reg was tiny and I was not confident it would support the flow needed to deal with 300hp worth of E85 fuel flow. Also removed the internal line that the went from the reg to the return fitting. New bling is also visible.


Fuel system. Perks of these cars. Bought two 6ft lengths of PTFE AN line and used about 9ft total. Areomotive replaceable core filter. The one red and blue AN fitting was because I was impatient at the time and wanted to get everything in one order. Another "temporarily permanent till replaced" item. Flex Fuel senor, fuel pressure regulator that I trust, with a fuel pressor sensor. View of passenger side engine mount/hanger some 'leaning to MiG weld on mission critical parts' and more oxidation based weight reduction.


Closer pic of the engine hanger. Engine side is 1/4in, maybe 3/16 angle, box section fish-mouthed to a sleeve the bushing slips into. 4 m10 or m12 bolts through the frame rail into a spreader place with captive nuts that took about an hour to get into the frame rail and into place. 2 m10 bolts in the strut tower, also with a spreader plate that needs welding on with captive nuts to help keep it from flexing with how tall it is off the frame rail. That whole thing is boxed in and gusseted. Not just a few flat plates.


Cherry on top of last summer. Late 50s vintage Cincinnati mill. In amazing shape. Power feed on X and Y. Uses a different collet system to the Bridgeports most people are used to. Much more like modern ER collets. And more expensive because old and obsolete, but it came with a very complete set of both imperial and metric and some other goodies. Icing on the cake, $500 because the shop wanted the floor space. Reduced to free 0.99 because we could pick it up the next day.
Will MAR 03, 03:44 PM

quote
Originally posted by KillerFrogg:

Good bye 3d printed mock up parts. Hello bling.





Did you have that CNC'd, then? Pretty trick, even if not 3D printed metal.
KillerFrogg MAR 05, 12:02 PM
Yes, I did get it CNC'd last year. Sent the file out in like April and got it back some time in August if I recall. An uncle owns a CNC and was able to work it in during some down time. Did it for cost of materials and some beer.
KillerFrogg FEB 18, 07:54 PM
Yearly update time! Since the last posts last year, I have unfortunately not gotten much done on the car. A few little things here and there.
Got a roll of foil backed fiberglass insulation to replace all of the jute in the cabin and the engine bay insulation, along with knock off dyna-mat for all of the flat surfaces in the cabin and behind the door cards. Have been chipping away at that when I have had time.

Pulled the roof section off both cars so I can swap the sunroof over to the new chassis. That didn't go as planned. I messed up and did the sunroof car first and broke the A pillars. Should have done the one I didn't care about first to figure out where everything was and how best to deal with the adhesive.. Fixable but annoying.

I also picked up the Corvette 12in brake swap kit for the car. Just bought the bracket set and sourced the calipers my self. Fairly happy with it all, nothing really to complain about as far as the kit goes. Machined down the front hub rotors to make just hubs, drilled the vett rotors for the 5x100 pattern. Nothing special. It was a fun little project though since we got a new big boy lathe for the home shop it has enough grunt to machine the entire rotor off the hub in one pass from the outside in so it took all of about 30 minutes to do, mostly in the setup.

I'm not sure how much will get done on the car this year. Goal is running, which is mostly just a wiring project at this point. Since going back to work after the initial covid shutdown in the spring of '20 I have been averaging about 1 day off every 5-6 weeks. + buying a house, and my partner and I have a baby on the way due in June. So im now even more excited to get the car done for him, since as a kid my dad had a similar deal with his '74 Olds Cutlass hotrod that is under the cover in the background of some of the photos I have posted here.

Hope everyone keeping an eye on this thread has been doing well and enjoying their projects and cars out there! I will definitely be keeping up to date on here when I can. This swap is sorely under represented and I want to put the info out there for everyone else too
toshibahusky MAY 13, 10:35 PM
hopefully youre still active and well! what axles did you end up using for the F40 transmission? did you find it to shift the placement of the engine and tranny on the sub frame or engine bay in relation to where the stock drivetrain was?