Unusual clutch issue (Page 7/8)
Patrick AUG 01, 05:19 PM

quote
Originally posted by stevep914:

My existing banjo is a bit bent, but not drastic. It was welded that way from the getgo, by the look of it. I will ponder what to do about the bit of wear.



Yeah, it looks like it wasn't oriented correctly when it was welded. In regards to the worn hole, the easiest thing to do (other than getting a new banjo) would be to drill it out a bit larger (so that it's round) and have a bushing made to fit it and your pedal... or better yet, drill out the hole to fit an "off the shelf" bushing that also fits your pedal.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-01-2022).]

sanderson231 AUG 01, 05:40 PM
The older style master (bottom pic) is the superior unit. Much easier to bleed with pedal (two people like bleeding brakes).

------------------
formerly known as sanderson
1984 Quad 4
1886 SE 2.8L
1988 4.9L Cadillac
1988 3800 Supercharged

stevep914 AUG 01, 07:09 PM
Got the old banjo straightened, and cleaned up. Also went back to the pedal to get a pin diameter measurement, for a possible bushing for a banjo redrill. Not a lot of meat on the banjo for enlargening the hole. While using a micrometer on the pin, I also checked the pin bracket, and the micrometer indicated a slight bend in the bracket, that I couldn’t see visually. Got that straightened as well. I pick up the new master tonight. Steve
fierofool AUG 01, 07:40 PM
The Sachs master cylinder from Autozone has the correct bushing. It's a plastic clip insert. The banjo is held onto the pedal with a washer and clip pin. Later years had the brass oilite bushing. Also, when you install the new master cylinder, be sure that the curl of the banjo rod is upward, or you will have problems with clutch release.

Forgive me, but I didn't see what year chassis your car is built on. The 86 (you refer to the trans as an 86 but the car may not be) is the most difficult to get the correct clutch system parts. Does it appear that the fluid line at the master cylinder has been modified or cut and spliced? Was the car converted from an automatic to a manual? This info might help to sort things out. It may be that some things were intermixed.
stevep914 AUG 01, 08:44 PM
Patrick, I sent you a picture. I am assuming even though I lose the adjustability on the old banjo, it would be a no brainer to use the whole new assembly? There was a plastic insert in the banjo hole that I would assume downsizes it to the newer pedal pin. To Fierofool: I bought this car years ago from a Polish guy in .Edmonton sight unseen, although he sent me tons of pictures and a video. He had bought it from an auction after it had been stolen and burnt. He had been in the restoration phase, when he got transferred back to Poland. It had been built in 1996 by a car dealer in Quebec, who titled it as a real F40, which caused 3 years of import hassles, when I tried to get it into Mexico. There is a huge section on Mad Mechanics.com on my many trips to the border to try to get the car into Mexico. My understanding is that it is an 86 chassis, that the builder installed an Isuzu 5 speed into. I had to be creative when I reconditioned the clutch components several years ago because of this. The car has real Veglia gauges from a 328 Ferrari in it, which was a wiring nightmare to get working with an .American power plant. ( I had to rewire most of the car after 3 years sitting stalled at the border- mice got hungry!) So it is a hodgepodge of mixed parts, but a really good replica that drives like a race car ( I used to race a GT3 car in SCCA when I lived in Thunder Bay, Canada. ) Steve
stevep914 AUG 01, 08:51 PM
As a quick sidenote: the new banjo is too small by just a hair to go onto the pedal pin. I guess I either fine tune the pedal pin, or the hole in the banjo. Steve
Patrick AUG 01, 11:07 PM



quote
Originally posted by stevep914:

Patrick, I sent you a picture. I am assuming even though I lose the adjustability on the old banjo, it would be a no brainer to use the whole new assembly? There was a plastic insert in the banjo hole that I would assume downsizes it to the newer pedal pin.



If, and that's a big if your pedal isn't bent, then the new banjo might be fine... but I suspect the adjustable banjo was installed because the pedal is bent (and therefore wouldn't supply enough throw). That "plastic insert" is a bushing that fits the newer style pedal. The correct banjo for your pedal has a larger hole and a larger bushing (as fierofool was describing).

Out of curiosity, how does the length of the new banjo compare to the length that the old adjustable banjo was set at?

Your best bet may yet be to repair the hole in the old banjo as I was mentioning previously.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-01-2022).]

stevep914 AUG 02, 10:36 AM
Unfortunately, the old banjo did not have a locknut on it, and spun on the threads freely, when I removed it. So I can’t really say whether the new one is longer or not. It is entirely possible that over time, the old one was spinning a bit at a time, and the rod got shorter than at was supposed to. May have been at least part of my problem. At this point, with no speed shops here, and Autozone had no bushing kits, I am inclined to try the new setup. I am still concerned even if I found a bushing, the meat on the old banjo might not be sufficient to drill out any of it. The old banjo had worn significantly, and not evenly. With the car all apart now, I have nothing but time to try the one, and if not sufficient, got to the other one with some extra work. I DID make sure the pedal is now straight- it was off just a bit.( used a micrometer to measure the gap between the top and bottom of the “U” bracket) Steve
Patrick AUG 02, 02:57 PM

quote
Originally posted by stevep914:

Unfortunately, the old banjo did not have a locknut on it, and spun on the threads freely, when I removed it. So I can’t really say whether the new one is longer or not. It is entirely possible that over time, the old one was spinning a bit at a time, and the rod got shorter than at was supposed to. May have been at least part of my problem.



The fact that your clutch pedal was sitting 1-3/4" above the brake pedal leads me to believe it's rather doubtful that the banjo was adjusted too short. Ideally, the banjo length allows the clutch pedal to hit the floor just as the master reaches the end of its travel.


quote
Originally posted by stevep914:

I DID make sure the pedal is now straight- it was off just a bit.( used a micrometer to measure the gap between the top and bottom of the “U” bracket)



This is what my bent clutch pedal looked like.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-03-2022).]

stevep914 AUG 02, 03:03 PM
Installed the new assembly ; had to slightly enlarge the banjo hole to fit the pin on the pedal. Bench bled the master, and the pedal is exactly 1 inch above the brake pedal. No play in the pedal/ banjo connection, where there was a lot with the old setup.Will gravity bleed the whole thing this afternoon, and see what it gives me.