Project 3400 Roller Cam Block (Page 62/82)
lou_dias JAN 21, 04:26 PM

quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:
I wasn't comparing your engine to a modded 3500, I was comparing it to a stock 3500. I did say that, and you quoted it. again, look at area under the curve (average power), a stock 3400 or 3500 blows you out of the water.


What "stock" 3400/3500 dyno are you looking at? Apparently you're hallucinating...

With the Trueleo intake:
171.24 rwhp @ 4600 / 214.29 ft*lbs @ 3850
With Fiero ported intake with neck restriction
187 rwhp @ 4150 / 249 ft*lbs @ 3600...which was making ~170rwhp @ 4900 still

A stock 3400 dynos at 150-155 rwhp with NO MODS on an auto. Add 5hp for the sticks they never came with.
ericjon262 JAN 21, 05:47 PM

quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

What "stock" 3400/3500 dyno are you looking at? Apparently you're hallucinating...

With the Trueleo intake:
171.24 rwhp @ 4600 / 214.29 ft*lbs @ 3850
With Fiero ported intake with neck restriction
187 rwhp @ 4150 / 249 ft*lbs @ 3600...which was making ~170rwhp @ 4900 still

A stock 3400 dynos at 150-155 rwhp with NO MODS on an auto. Add 5hp for the sticks they never came with.



there you go again putting words in my mouth, I said stock 3500, not 3400/3500.

heres a good one: stock 3500 in a Manual transmission Fiero




206 hp, and looks like 245 or so ftlbs with way more area under the curve then you.

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 01-25-2014).]

lou_dias JAN 21, 06:17 PM

quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:


there you go again putting words in my mouth, I said stock 3500, not 3400/3500.

heres a good one: stock 3500 in a Manual transmission Fiero



206 hp, and looks like 235 or so ftlbs with way more area under the curve then you.



I don't know what you're trying to prove here. A stock 3500 makes about 20 more HP than a stock 3400. This "stock" 3500 had to get a custom exhaust, so the definition of "stock" is in question. An exhaust mod is a mod. I am exhaust modded and this 3500 is also and made about 20 more HP which is what it should make. Your area under the curve depends where you measure from and where you cut it off.

My torque curve came down sooner because I has an intake neck restriction. I switched to a high flow intake that prevented me from using the stock air filter housing since the TB is right infront of the hinge and the shorter and larger-port intake system reduced my intake pressure stream and I lost power. This is why I had my old intake DAWG modded and it will be installed in a couple of months after I move ao please be patient for another dyno in a few months. Is that too much to ask?
ericjon262 JAN 21, 06:23 PM

quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

I don't know what you're trying to prove here. A stock 3500 makes about 20 more HP than a stock 3400. This "stock" 3500 had to get a custom exhaust, so the definition of "stock" is in question. An exhaust mod is a mod. I am exhaust modded and this 3500 is also and made about 20 more HP which is what it should make. Your area under the curve depends where you measure from and where you cut it off.

My torque curve came down sooner because I has an intake neck restriction. I switched to a high flow intake that prevented me from using the stock air filter housing since the TB is right infront of the hinge and the shorter and larger-port intake system reduced my intake pressure stream and I lost power. This is why I had my old intake DAWG modded and it will be installed in a couple of months after I move ao please be patient for another dyno in a few months. Is that too much to ask?



you measure area under the curve(get this) UNDER THE CURVE! curve stops, the area stops! I know, my mind is blown too. and the exhaust was crush bent tubing, not even mandrel bent breathing through stock manifolds, not even headers. the engine is stock. and let's be blunt, it's a hell of a lot more stock then your engine.
lou_dias JAN 21, 08:17 PM

quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:
you measure area under the curve(get this) UNDER THE CURVE! curve stops, the area stops! I know, my mind is blown too. and the exhaust was crush bent tubing, not even mandrel bent breathing through stock manifolds, not even headers. the engine is stock. and let's be blunt, it's a hell of a lot more stock then your engine.


You can claim anything you want about the exhaust. It's not stock and is probably better than stock since we all know stock exhausts generally suck.

As for "area under the curve", again, it depends how you measure.
The dyno operator on my graph gunned it at just over 2000rpm so my tip-in was bad but I was still flat close to 249 ft*lbs from 2000rpm to 3600 rpm which is higher than this 3500. That configuration just got a base tune from Ryan and as you can see it's pretty rich never going above 12:1 and dipping as the RPM go up, so it definitely had some power left on the table. In fact we are making about the same HP at my peak of 4100ish. My graph cuts off at 5200. It seems I am higher for ~2000rpm and the 3500 is higher for 1200 rpm. You'd have to really plot it out on excel but the "area under the curve" difference is minimal at best either way and my intake had a documented/well-known restriction. For daily street driving, my engine - back then, would feel stronger.

Again, please wait a couple of months until I can get the old intake back on, now with the DAWG mod done to it instead of continuing this "war of attrition". I've always been open about my mods and will continue to do so...even when it has shown that I lost power (like when I switched intakes). I'm not here to hide anything. If I can squeeze more power out of my setup, then everyone can copy it if they choose and benefit from it.

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 01-21-2014).]

Will JAN 22, 08:36 AM

quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

Seekonk's oval track competition isn't won simply on engine power. If it was, I would have never won 2nd place 8 months ago.
This thread is about the car I have a 3400 roller cam block engine in. I have a different thread for my 4.9 car. My stock Formula car has no thread.



I understand that it's not drag racing.
But more power will help make you quicker... and you seem to be turning down the options for making more power. You say you don't want more cam because that would put your powerband out of reach on the track, but you don't want more final gear either, which would both give your current powerband better acceleration and allow you to use 10% more RPM... That's a head scratcher for me.
lou_dias JAN 22, 09:10 AM

quote
Originally posted by Will:
I understand that it's not drag racing.
But more power will help make you quicker... and you seem to be turning down the options for making more power. You say you don't want more cam because that would put your powerband out of reach on the track, but you don't want more final gear either, which would both give your current powerband better acceleration and allow you to use 10% more RPM... That's a head scratcher for me.


Here's the long and short of it:
I was expecting to get my Trueleo intake setup to outperform my Fiero intake setup. It didn't, probably because I can't run a proper CAI in fact I run open at the TB so I lost intake pressure.
I'm going back the the Fiero intake, now DAWG-modded so that I can hook up the rest of the Fiero intake system (airbox, air filter) and hopefully restore or exceed the 20% torque I lost. Considering my a/f ratio on that old setup averages 11.5:1, it should be easy and the DAWG mod should get me past the 4100ish rpm peak I had (as well as some tuning). Remember, I never actually raced that setup because I snapped an axle 2 years in a row then just switch to Trueleo+7730+DIS...hence my tuning nightmare.

There's no way I can change gears or tire sizes enough to get out of shifting into 3rd, so I might as well maximize my torque since 3rd gear will never see >5000 rpm because I run out of track. 2nd gear is wasted on the first set of curves. I hope you get it now.

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 01-22-2014).]

Will JAN 22, 03:50 PM

quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

There's no way I can change gears or tire sizes enough to get out of shifting into 3rd, so I might as well maximize my torque since 3rd gear will never see >5000 rpm because I run out of track. 2nd gear is wasted on the first set of curves. I hope you get it now.




If you swap to 3.94 gears, then you can run to ~5500 RPM in 3rd at the same road speed. In addition, you'll see a greater speed at the end of the straight due to 10% better acceleration from the same torque.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-22-2014).]

lou_dias JAN 22, 03:57 PM

quote
Originally posted by Will:
If you swap to 3.94 gears, then you can run to ~5500 RPM in 3rd at the same road speed. In addition, you'll see a greater speed at the end of the straight due to 10% better acceleration from the same torque.


So there are gear-sets for the F40? If there are, I'd also like to replace 1st gear if the final is going that high...as well as space out 4-5-6 more to get some economy back...
Blacktree JAN 22, 05:00 PM

quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

Here's the long and short of it:
I was expecting to get my Trueleo intake setup to outperform my Fiero intake setup. It didn't...


Been there, done that. My old 2.8 V6 started out with a ported stock intake and stock throttle body. When I replaced it with the Trueleo intake and a Buick GN throttle body (59mm), I gained about 2 HP. Whoopty-freaking-doo.

The problem? I don't think the rest of the engine was able to make use of the better intake. Sound familiar? IMO, the solution is not to put a crappy intake back on, but rather improve the rest of the engine so it can use the better intake. That starts with the camshaft. And since your heads are already aggressively ported, they should respond pretty well to a camshaft upgrade.

Not to be rude, but I think you're knee-capping your engine by keeping the "grocery getter" camshaft in it.