PFF - Pennock's Fiero Forum, PDA Edition

The Turbo 3500 F23 swap (Page 61/80)

ericjon262

FEB 21, 02:34 AM

Drop spindles, rod end lateral links, spherical bearings, and anti dive spacers are all in! for the short drive around the block, it seems to drive about like stock still, it doesn't feel harsh or overly aggressive, that being said, I babied it around, and I really need to bleed the brakes again, I think there's trapped air in them still, because they're just way too soft. I also washed the car for the first time in probably five years... it cleans up nice, even though the paint looks like trash up close. here's a before and after for the suspension work and spit shine.

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"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

ericjon262

MAR 22, 10:23 PM

long time no update...

The hubcaps on the rear wheels never cleared the axle stub/nut, so I drew up some extensions and 3D printed them. originally, this was planned as a test fit, and I would later reprint the cap extender in ABS, or something more durable than PLA, the only problem is, my tolerances were tight, and the cap is stuck on there good now. If it flies off going down the road, it flies off.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

The newest design has provisions for a spring to be installed to aid in holding the cap in place. it's available here if anyone wants/needs it.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4772551

My car hasn't had sail panels for a while, I had a few sets to choose from, but I ended up going with my old stock ones, after carefully taping them off and painting them.

I was having a ton of tuning issues since I updated the injector dead times, no matter what I did, the engine was either going lean and dying, or blowing black smoke rich and fowling spark plugs. I did some more research on my injectors, and found that there were several runs of Deka injectors with differing dead times, so I increased my dead times by about 25% and my problems now appear to be gone, which was quite the relief. unfortunately, the brakes are really bad right now, I suspected a blown master cylinder, so I bought a new one, for a 90's S-10 blazer, but of course the new MC was DOA, and leaking by internally, so my brakes were still crap...The new MC should arrive tomorrow, and we'll see whether or not my brakes are restored. if they are, I'll probably take it for a short drive and take some datalogs.

Other than that, I've been spending the vast majority of my time remodeling my kitchen, and replumbing my house, of course, that project is also waiting on parts, so... yeah.

zkhennings

MAR 25, 03:32 PM

Nice that is a slick solution angling the front crossmember back to (near?) parallel with the road. I intend to do a custom front crossmember at some point, but this is a really cool solution to utilize all the stock components and fix the dive/lift problem. I may pursue a similar concept.

Have you considered running a custom adjustable front upper A arm that has a lower inboard pivot axis to improve the camber curve? From what I have looked at it seems fairly straight forwards to weld some new upper A arm mounts lower down on the crossmember. Two small box sections with a captured nut per A arm. Plate steel cut out to accept the Fiero upper ball joint welded to DOM tubing with rod ends. Can adjust static camber and caster much more easily this way as well.

Also good to hear you figured out the deadtimes on those injectors you have.

ericjon262

MAR 26, 12:06 AM

quote

Originally posted by zkhennings:

Nice that is a slick solution angling the front crossmember back to (near?) parallel with the road. I intend to do a custom front crossmember at some point, but this is a really cool solution to utilize all the stock components and fix the dive/lift problem. I may pursue a similar concept.

Have you considered running a custom adjustable front upper A arm that has a lower inboard pivot axis to improve the camber curve? From what I have looked at it seems fairly straight forwards to weld some new upper A arm mounts lower down on the crossmember. Two small box sections with a captured nut per A arm. Plate steel cut out to accept the Fiero upper ball joint welded to DOM tubing with rod ends. Can adjust static camber and caster much more easily this way as well.

Also good to hear you figured out the deadtimes on those injectors you have.

Thanks!

The anti dive setup is all Will, I can't take credit for it, and it does have it's share of difficulties.

-The modification lifts the front of the car about 1" Will and I both fixed that with drop spindles, I am unsure as to how well this would work with lowering balljoints, or lowering springs.

-The spherical "Miss alignment" washers won't allow for the degree of miss alignment required, so you have to use an M12 washer, and bore out the convex portion.

-Steering shaft is a little bit short, the pinch bolt gets engaged, but just barely.

-rotating the crossmember pushes the front LCA mount rearward, so the control arm doesn't fit anymore without slotting the holes

-you lose pretty much all the caster that was in the stock suspension, and as far as I can see, there isn't a way to get it back without a custom adjustable UCA
There's more than one way to skin a cat, and I had a few ideas floating around that might make the install easier, but I need to get them on paper and do some shadetree engineering to figure out if my ideas are executable. if I do it again, I don't want slotted holes in the crossmember. realistically, if I do something like this again, it will be a new front suspension with some kind of coilover setup.

I would like to make some adjustable UCA's, right now, the car doesn't self center at all, but I also have barely driven it like this, the brakes need fixed before I drive it anywhere, they're super soft, and I'm not really sure why.
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"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 03-26-2021).]

zkhennings

MAR 26, 09:57 AM

Sounds like you need a custom offset UCA, seems like the simplest path to fix your caster issues. I would be surprised if with the earlier front suspension geometry + no caster you wouldn't roll over onto the sidewall during hard turns. I forget if you have lowering ball joints but that may help prevent that to some degree giving you a little more negative camber on compression.

Can you extend the steering coupler? I would be a little nervous driving a car with the power yours is making without full engagement of that pinch area!

[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 03-26-2021).]

ericjon262

MAR 26, 03:56 PM

quote

Originally posted by zkhennings:

Sounds like you need a custom offset UCA, seems like the simplest path to fix your caster issues. I would be surprised if with the earlier front suspension geometry + no caster you wouldn't roll over onto the sidewall during hard turns. I forget if you have lowering ball joints but that may help prevent that to some degree giving you a little more negative camber on compression.

Can you extend the steering coupler? I would be a little nervous driving a car with the power yours is making without full engagement of that pinch area!

I have 2" drop spindles, which is part of what I forgot to add to the list of issues, this raises the nose of the car about an inch or so. I have been planning making a set of adjustable control arms, the car needs more camber too, I need to take the upper ball joints back out and slot the holes for the ball joints/bolts.

I have a few ideas for extending the steering shaft, it's pretty solid ATM, but I agree, it could use to be better.

At the moment, my top priority remains the brakes, but I have too much work to do on my house ATM to spend time on the car until I get things to a more complete state.

fieroguru

MAR 26, 06:40 PM

quote

Originally posted by ericjon262:
the brakes need fixed before I drive it anywhere, they're super soft, and I'm not really sure why.

The C5 calipers are 42% larger, so the brake pedal will be 42% softer for the same clamp force if you have not swapped brake master cylinders.

ericjon262

MAR 26, 06:47 PM

quote

Originally posted by fieroguru:

The C5 calipers are 42% larger, so the brake pedal will be 42% softer for the same clamp force if you have not swapped brake master cylinders.

agreed, but something still isn't right, I should say spongy, not soft. it feels like there's air in the lines still, but I have bled them, and bled them, and bled them... The lines, the master ect. bleed until there's no air, start the car, push the pedal, and it goes to the floor. I'm installing a new, AC delco S10 blazer MC this weekend, hopefully it will solve my problems, I would like to drive this car at least a little bit before I have to move.

zkhennings

MAR 28, 05:04 PM

Are you running ceramic pads? They feel significantly spongier than semi metallic ones

ericjon262

MAR 28, 11:07 PM

quote

Originally posted by zkhennings:

Are you running ceramic pads? They feel significantly spongier than semi metallic ones

I honestly don't remember at this point, I bought them 4-5 years ago... (man it's depressing to say that...), but they aren't spongy in the sense that they're ok to drive on, but a little iffy, they're spongy like, not a snowball's chance in hell I'll drive it like this... The new master came in today, unfortunately, I've been working on my kitchen all day and didn't get a chance to do anything with it.