250 WHP Supernatural 3.4 Build (Page 6/47)
La fiera OCT 26, 08:01 PM

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[B]
A 3900 iron block still has a factory longblock look to it if you put iron heads on it. Then you get advantage of stock looking block with increased displacement and roller cam.

You could use a 3400 iron block and use a roller cam too you know. You are using a big mechanical while the lz9 uses a puny hydraulic.

Congrats on using iron heads and making 240 whp. Its a good accomplishment. But it could be more if you ditched the iron heads. That's the point Will was making. Since you want to sell your aluminum heads you willing to share the specs on those that you claim to have modded? Flow numbers? Valve size? Number of angle valvejob?



That's a good idea about using the 3900 block and use the iron heads! But then I have to get pistons to make up for the compression lost because of the chamber difference.

The reason I use a big mechanical cam is to make up for the lack of head flow of the iron heads.
And you are right, the LX9 does have a puny camshaft but the head flow makes up for the lack of lift and duration.

The 3500 heads are being made as of now. And for me to sell them I must have flow numbers and all the details otherwise I wont be able to sell them.
When they are ready I'll put them up in the mall.

And thank you very much for your suggestions, I really appreciate any suggestions from anybody.
lou_dias OCT 26, 10:16 PM

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Originally posted by turbo 3800:
The lx9 is a 3.5 liter. The lz9 is a 3.9. Yes the lz9 has more displacement but I wouldn't call it unfair. Formula1 engines are smaller than an lx9 and make more power n\a.

Swapped Lx9 is into fiero and Cavaliers have made 180-200 whp. Simple mod like freeing up intake with a pipe and filter and larger diameter exhaust when swapped is something that has to be done anyways when swapped. There are dyno sheets out there of this I am sure. No other mods done. No cam headers or anything else. That's 60-70 hp more than an l32

Lx9 with stock compression, ported heads, camshaft gasket matched factory intake and a 65 mm tb made 35 more hp than the fully built iron head 3.4 and still did it on factory computer. Most modded 3.4 only do 160-180 whp though. Yours is much stronger than average.

A 3900 iron block still has a factory longblock look to it if you put iron heads on it. Then you get advantage of stock looking block with increased displacement and roller cam.

You could use a 3400 iron block and use a roller cam too you know. You are using a big mechanical while the lz9 uses a puny hydraulic.

Congrats on using iron heads and making 240 whp. Its a good accomplishment. But it could be more if you ditched the iron heads. That's the point Will was making. Since you want to sell your aluminum heads you willing to share the specs on those that you claim to have modded? Flow numbers? Valve size? Number of angle valvejob?


You do know he's making 240 rwhp on a Mustang dyno with heavier than stock wheels right? Just buy switching to a Dynojet and he's closer to 260...
mender OCT 26, 10:37 PM

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Originally posted by La fiera:
A bone stock LX9 is about 165WHP and a bone stock L32 is about 135-140WHP.
I don't know if you know but with the 2.8 I had previous to the 3.4, I was able to squeeze 173WHP @ 6000RPM.., more than a stock LX9.


Just another data point: my LX9 has all stock internals and cast iron exhaust manifolds. I use a cable Shortstar throttle body that's the same size as the LX9 DBW TB. I did mild porting on everything I could reach (own and run a performance engine shop) and made 186 whp @ 5300 rpm (that stock cam) on a Dynomotive dyno when finished tuning. At the 6300 rpm fuel cut-off it's still making 172 whp.

Torque output at the wheels starts at 200 ft.lbs @ 2500 rpm, stays almost flat with a peak of 204 ft.lbs at 3800 rpm then starts dropping, dipping below 200 ft.lbs by 4500 rpm.

[This message has been edited by mender (edited 10-26-2017).]

La fiera OCT 26, 10:54 PM

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Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


Are you worried about someone on the board making their Fiero quicker than yours?

Why does the sauce need to be kept secret?



Not at all, There will always be some Fiero quicker than mine. I'm always willing to help anybody in the forum and I know some members can testify for that.
But there are certain things that I'd like to keep for myself.

Give you an example:
A friend came to ask me to enter in a karting championship the local track was putting together for the following year, my friend was also the track manager.
The reason he asked me was because he saw me about every weekend practicing. My kart did not comply with the rules because it was built in 1999 for oval tracks only.
This new local track was a road course and to make my kart "Legal" I had to do some changes to it and I did, but not on time. A new kart is about $4500-$5500, I paid $700 for mine! It needed a Spec engine, Spec tires and had to put weights to met the minimum weight to be legal. I asked another friend that owns a Mexican burrito joint to sponsor me and he agreed! He paid for the engine, paid all my entry fees and gas.
Since I was sponsored I paid a local team to rent a kart for the first 3 races, I managed two 2nd places and 1 win. They did the tuning and set up of the kart.
I entered my "modified oval kart" in the 4th round and you should've seen peoples faces! some of them thought it was a joke!

The joke was on them when I put it in pole position for the start. I went to win the race with a large margin of victory. I proceeded to tech to check my "legality" and they stripped my kart apart looking for something illegal, they found nothing. And that happened at every single race!

To make the story short I managed to win almost all the races, the ones I didn't win was because the kart had a mechanical failure or someone crashed into me.
They even brought professional kart drivers with years of experience and hundreds of wins. Did not work for them and that draw the line!
They came to me after the ceremony at the championship banquet to tell me that they will not let me race the following year, they said they had to "level" the plainfield.
"We know you are cheating but we don't know how", that was their reason from banning me from racing that class.

You know where my secret was? All competitors had the same weight, sealed engine and tires. My secret was in the set up and the way I adjusted my driving to use that set up to my advantage.
That was in 2014 and they still ask me how do I manage to be so fast? Now I have a new kart that a manufacturer gave to me because of my achievement with the older kart! the last 2 races I won with the new kart but I used the same principle; set up and use it to my advantage.

Now your question would be like: What was your set up? That I can't tell you!

The moral behind the story is: Don't do what EVERYBODY ELSE IS DOING. Think for yourself and look for ways to improve without following the trend.

I'll leave you with some pictures.









That landed me a ride on a Civic on the 24 horus of VIR Chump Car Series. Started 82nd and finished 10th.

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 10-26-2017).]

La fiera OCT 27, 09:59 PM
Back to the build!
I upgraded the trans. I went from the M17 3.65 gears to the M19 4.10 performance gears 4 speed manual. And to make things more interesting the diff is locked.
Now the driver input has a lot to do with it. You can't just floor it because you'll wrap it around a three.
The reason I decided to weld the diff was because of my karting experience. If I can drive a kart and be fast I want my Fiero
to be just like my kart.




Throttle response is very important for me, specially when rev matching. So an aluminum flywheel was chosen.
There is one trick you must do otherwise you'll hear noises and think is you motor!


If you choose to use an aluminum flywheel DO NOT INSTALL the bolts with out hard steel washers. The reason being is that the bolts will eat the aluminum and the flywheel will get loose and damaged. Apply red locktite and torque to the recommended specs.


Got an Ebay clutch just for giggles and also the price was right! I don't think it'll last long!


Get it in place and ready for the pressure plate.


Pressure plate torqued in place. I think the red color will give it more clamping force!

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 10-27-2017).]

Blacktree OCT 28, 11:45 AM
The red pressure plate holds an extra 20 ft-lb... true story.

I've been using a Fidanza aluminum flywheel for about 10 years now. There is no loctite on the flywheel bolts. The flywheel has never come loose. Proper torque (and torquing sequence) is your friend.
La fiera OCT 28, 02:26 PM

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Originally posted by Blacktree:

The red pressure plate holds an extra 20 ft-lb... true story.

I've been using a Fidanza aluminum flywheel for about 10 years now. There is no loctite on the flywheel bolts. The flywheel has never come loose. Proper torque (and torquing sequence) is your friend.



According to the manual there is no loctite on the flywheel botls that's for sure, but me personally using an aluminum flywheel with steel bolts and not using a washer to spread the clamping force evenly around the weak and softer aluminum is asking for trouble. Loctite is for extra precaution, you'll be surprise to see what comes loose when you run an engine constantly from mid to hi rpm for an hour of so.

Hey Mike, you replaced the friction disc on your flywheel right? Can you direct me where to get one?

Thanks!
Blacktree OCT 28, 03:22 PM
It's available at Summit Racing. Here's the link: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fiz-229501
Fierobsessed OCT 28, 07:45 PM
That pressure plate sucks. Not that brand per-se. just that specific type. Its a "Valeo AMC44" which probably had its pressure angle modded. I had severe issues with those type plates. They rely solely on the spring straps to retract the pressure ring itself. When you release the clutch the pressure ring isn't FORCED to retract. the spring straps merely suggest it. At high RPM any imbalance of the pressure ring causes it to wobble, grabbing the clutch disk unintentionally. Long story short. You may not be able to shift at high RPMs. If it were perfectly balanced and mounted perfectly centered it might be ok, but chances are it is not.

I've had great luck with Exedy "GMC502" They have clips that are riveted on that grab behind the diaphragm spring. The pressure ring is forced to back away from the clutch disk when you release the clutch. Only downside is that it is a relatively low-moderate clamping pressure plate at 2100 lbs. I've measured SPEC's "SCC883" pressure plate right at 3000 lbs which is impressive. However, that one won't stay released at high RPMs. The modifications they made to increase clamping also reduced the spring straps retracting force.

For some detail, see my build thread.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...L/127002-7.html#p250

I haven't updated it with my modified Exedy pressure plates yet, as I just finished building one.
pmbrunelle OCT 28, 08:16 PM
Funny how there seems to be just a handful of clutch manufacturers in the world.

Everyone else is just repackaging/repainting/relabeling the Big Guys' clutches.