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| Project 3400 Roller Cam Block (Page 49/82) |
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carbon
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JUL 18, 08:39 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
I forgot my dyno sheet at home today...
I wonder if by posting 3 dynos from 3 different shops if anyone's learned anything about dynos yet... FYI under 10:1 compression, a motor will not produce more than 1 ft*lbs per cubic inch. I'd most likely have posted something like 202/249 right now on the dyno I originally did 187/249, (so @Carbon: take your 275/249 3500 dyno with the same grain of salt you take my 187/249 dyno...and my 149/167 dyno) . It all depends on the calibration. Dynojets are 'fairly' standard. Mustang dynos are wildly different. You can't compare 2 cars on 2 different dynos. This is why track times are king and dynos are just for tuning. Dynos are RELATIVE.
To give everyone a better idea of how much power I'm making, I'd have to bring my stock Formula to the shop and see what power it produces on THAT dyno. At that point I'd just be throwing money away to satisfy trolls.. I'd also have to take time off from work again since other than the 'low' dyno shop, these other shops are M-F/9-5 shops.
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Since you mentioned me... he's also got 1/4 mile times that back him up.
And just for the record from page 11 of this thread:
| quote | Originally posted by carbon: Yeah, you can't compare two different dyno setups even if they are the same brand. It would be nice if there was a standard. Even "SAE corrected" results are all over the place... |
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Do you really only read the posts that piss you off?[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 07-18-2013).]
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lou_dias
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JUL 18, 08:48 AM
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His track times are still relative to his weight...and I don't run the 1/4 mile...
| quote | Originally posted by carbon: Do you really only read the posts that piss you off?
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It's funny because you're the one ramming HIS dyno down my throat. So it seems you just used it to troll when you knew it was relative all along.
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carbon
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JUL 18, 09:03 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
His track times are still relative to his weight...and I don't run the 1/4 mile... |
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Whatever... 1/4 mile time HP calcs require weight to estimate horsepower. 
| quote | | It's funny because you're the one ramming HIS dyno down my throat. |
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I referred to it once... 
| quote | | So it seems you just used it to troll when you knew it was relative all along. |
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You keep calling me a troll... you made the claim that aluminum heads were no better than iron heads, heck you even started a new post to fan the flames from other threads hoping to draw more into the argument: For "aluminum head enthusiasts" During which you said:
| quote | | Originally posted by lou_dias: As I said, it's not worth arguing over 'theory'. My future dyno will speak for itself. |
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You didn't think that would attract interest? So here is your thread and here are your dyno's and you've had a couple of 'low' ones that agree with each other and one or two high ones one of which seems like an operator error due to other behaviors attributed to the operator by you. You're tune is never right, everyone here is a troll, everyone at 60DegreeV6 is a troll, you talk about people talking down to you... do you ever read your own posts?
If you're arguing that your iron heads with an undefined amount of porting, an aftermarket intake, corrected exhaust and bigger throttle body matches/beats what a stock 3400 can do with the same cam, then congrats, you've most likely done it. 
That, however, does not make them equal yet, because you can still do the same thing to the aluminum heads and make similar gains beyond that...
Honestly, it will be interesting to see how it behaves with your new cam next season, as that will tell even more about the heads' ability to flow.  [This message has been edited by carbon (edited 07-18-2013).]
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lou_dias
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JUL 18, 11:29 AM
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Yes, the AL enthusiast argument was that iron heads don't flow poop and you're stupid for sticking with iron heads. It was the AL enthusiasts that started the flame war.
I've looked at 3400 dynos running the stock cam and where realistic torque #'s are reported (aka scaling/calibration of the dyno is correct), my iron heads are putting down comparable numbers. So my point is correct.
One of my points was that my intake (stock ported) still had a restrictive neck and that's why my peak was 4100 rpm in the 187/249 dyno. Surprise - I was correct. I would have only posted ~152/203 on this dynojet with the restrictive Fiero intake I was running. On the 'low' mustang dyno, my top end tune was better and I peaked at the cam specs. I re-tuned my car 2 nights ago and leaned out my top end too much after 4400 rpm and my peak went down to 4800 rpm. I shot myself in the foot with my tuning. An easy fix.
People like you, see - I didn't call you a troll this time - got on me for trying to scale the dynos to match. Coming from an engineering background, that is a totally normal thing to do when independently calibrated devices are in play.
As for going forward, I'll probably either turbo or go the LSx route since like I said before - 25 more hp isn't going to get me 1st place at this track with the competition that's ahead of me.
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sleevePAPA
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JUL 18, 12:27 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
Nope. Bone stock Mustang orange pintle injectors. Throttle gets mashed and my a/f ratio drops to 10:1 even though I have it set for 14:1 down low...
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EECtuning.org is down ATT and im pretty sure they have the "orange" 19# injector data sheets for the voltage compensation. Hopefully the site is back up soon.
what are you tuning with? Tunerpro? Might be able to fix the low end rich condition by changing affected cells in the VE table depending on how you are tuning.
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lou_dias
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JUL 18, 12:46 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by sleevePAPA:
EECtuning.org is down ATT and im pretty sure they have the "orange" 19# injector data sheets for the voltage compensation. Hopefully the site is back up soon.
what are you tuning with? Tunerpro? Might be able to fix the low end rich condition by changing affected cells in the VE table depending on how you are tuning. |
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Yes, Tuner Pro RT. Thanks for your help.
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Sigler85GT
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JUL 18, 01:59 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
This is why track times are king and dynos are just for tuning. Dynos are RELATIVE.
To give everyone a better idea of how much power I'm making, I'd have to bring my stock Formula to the shop and see what power it produces on THAT dyno. At that point I'd just be throwing money away to satisfy trolls.. I'd also have to take time off from work again since other than the 'low' dyno shop, these other shops are M-F/9-5 shops.
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Are you running at the same spot on the track, turning your wheels at the same spot to the same degree everytime, mashing throttle and letting out at the exact same spot every time for this to be a controlled expiriment? This is why quarter mile track times beat a circle track time. you have too maby variables to even compare it to. Again good luck lou.
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lou_dias
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JUL 18, 07:28 PM
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As you can see below, my re-tune cause me to go too lean after 4400 so I lost peak power but before that it still goes way too rich when the throttle gets mashed...

The a/f table I used:

I can see it putting down 17X hp when I re-richen up the top end but I am not going for a dyno until I can fix the bottom end because it's my launches that are killing me at the track.[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 07-18-2013).]
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La fiera
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JUL 19, 12:47 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
...... but I am not going for a dyno until I can fix the bottom end because it's my launches that are killing me at the track.
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I'd go to the Mustang dyno and practice hard launches while recording data to view after the runs. Forget about making power, just concentrate about getting a crispy clean throttle response with no hiccups. Hmmm! I'm running about 14.xx from 4000rpm and up and I'm peaking 173 hp at 6000 rpm. Let us know if numbers go up when you do enrich it so I can try the same.


Good luck![This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 07-19-2013).]
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lou_dias
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JUL 19, 07:24 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by La fiera:
I'd go to the Mustang dyno and practice hard launches while recording data to view after the runs. Forget about making power, just concentrate about getting a crispy clean throttle response with no hiccups. Hmmm! I'm running about 14.xx from 4000rpm and up and I'm peaking 173 hp at 6000 rpm. Let us know if numbers go up when you do enrich it so I can try the same.


Good luck! |
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Thanks! Out of curiosity what cam are you running? Looking at your a/f, it seems you do climb to 14 for a couple of thousand rpm but go back to 13 at your peak. You should try to keep it at 13 the whole time.[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 07-19-2013).]
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