still overheating and being weird (Page 4/16) cartercarbaficionado JUN 12, 11:57 AM quote Originally posted by Yellow-88: Yes. I understand and easily relate to that. I started my car life in the early seventies. British sports cars were rather simple but they can get pretty screwed up by people who "don't know what they are doing". Foreign mechanics where rare and expensive so screwed up cars often got abandoned and could be had wicked cheep. I learned early that problem solving is a precise process. Intermediates are no different, just a bit more frustrating. I moved on to affordable mid engines in the nineties. Let's see .... Maserati, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Toyota ...... Pontiac. Hmmm.... Let's use your heating problem as an example. Does it over heat? yes. Does the coolant start circulating at operating temp? We don't know. If it does, does the radiator get hot? We don't know. if so is the coolant hotter at the inlet than the outlet? We don't know. A accurate thermometer is essential. Do you see where I'm going with this. With any "no" answers we look at the components that make up the system. But don't just start changing stuff especially if it's intermittent. With a verified "yes" to all those questions and the temp is still to high, we start a knew diagnostic. Why is it running hot? And that's not back to the beginning. Detroit must design cooling systems to work in the most extreme conditions. Your cooling problem is not the auxiliary fan. litterally the system is functioning as intended 90% of the time. coolant is circulating at full flow at 205.7 degrees on the thermostat housing. the radiator gets plenty hot since the fan being forced on usually keeps it from overheating besides when it feels like it I guess. water enters at 205 and exits at ~170 but that might be because the lower hose is wrapped in anti chafe and heat wrap stuff if it's an intermittent issue I'm fairly sure its much more likely knowing this car that it's wiring decides to just ne weird. or the fan relay sucks despite trying litterally 7 of them and getting different fan speeds and temp activation from every single one somehow. I dunno about designing them to work in the most extreme. maybe most extreme for California Yellow-88 JUN 12, 06:43 PM quote Originally posted by cartercarbaficionado: litterally the system is functioning as intended 90% of the time. coolant is circulating at full flow at 205.7 degrees on the thermostat housing. the radiator gets plenty hot since the fan being forced on usually keeps it from overheating besides when it feels like it I guess. water enters at 205 and exits at ~170 but that might be because the lower hose is wrapped in anti chafe and heat wrap stuff if it's an intermittent issue I'm fairly sure its much more likely knowing this car that it's wiring decides to just ne weird. or the fan relay sucks despite trying litterally 7 of them and getting different fan speeds and temp activation from every single one somehow. I dunno about designing them to work in the most extreme. maybe most extreme for California This is real progress. The T-stat opens at 195 degrees so 206 doesn't seem to far off. My thermometer decided to become invisible so I can't check mine. I'm sure it will reappear the next time I'm looking for something else. Anybody who want's to check T-stat housing exit against what Carter sees, please jump in. You can't measure temp through insulation so that 170 number shouldn't be trusted. The bare coolant tubes seem like a good point to measure. The radiator inlet outlet Delta T will vary depending on the air temp but there must be some data published some ware. But if it's it's very close, the radiator is suspect, unless it's wicked hot outside. Testing with the fan running and not running would be an interesting test. The fan is there to simulate the car moving when stopped in heavy traffic. Your fan issue is separate from your cooling issue. Obviously, 7 new relays are not enough. Chasing your tail again? Both my wife's 87 and my 88 have the low temp fan switch. I think the set point is 200 F. ( ?? ) The fan almost never turns on. You may actually be running hotter than normal so your cooling system can't quite keep up. 90% is pretty close to right on. You know there are a few things that will make an engine run hot. One little mentioned one is the EGR system. It's there to cool the fire so you don't oxidize nitrogen. How is your EGR? Of course with climate change kicking in, I think high capacity radiators will soon be flying off the shelves. cartercarbaficionado JUN 12, 07:49 PM quote Originally posted by Yellow-88: This is real progress. The T-stat opens at 195 degrees so 206 doesn't seem to far off. My thermometer decided to become invisible so I can't check mine. I'm sure it will reappear the next time I'm looking for something else. Anybody who want's to check T-stat housing exit against what Carter sees, please jump in. You can't measure temp through insulation so that 170 number shouldn't be trusted. The bare coolant tubes seem like a good point to measure. The radiator inlet outlet Delta T will vary depending on the air temp but there must be some data published some ware. But if it's it's very close, the radiator is suspect, unless it's wicked hot outside. Testing with the fan running and not running would be an interesting test. The fan is there to simulate the car moving when stopped in heavy traffic. Your fan issue is separate from your cooling issue. Obviously, 7 new relays are not enough. Chasing your tail again? Both my wife's 87 and my 88 have the low temp fan switch. I think the set point is 200 F. ( ?? ) The fan almost never turns on. You may actually be running hotter than normal so your cooling system can't quite keep up. 90% is pretty close to right on. You know there are a few things that will make an engine run hot. One little mentioned one is the EGR system. It's there to cool the fire so you don't oxidize nitrogen. How is your EGR? Of course with climate change kicking in, I think high capacity radiators will soon be flying off the shelves. my egr is functional but possibly stuck open. haven't bothered to care about it since it really enjoys needing to be smacked to let the vehicle even be able to start. might be running extremely lean since it takes ~30 seconds of cranking for it to sputter to life and I'm not too sure why. only did it with the new distributor and also stopped overheating as bad around the same time. other than that I've replaced every sensor and verified timing since I made a post about the engine running like garbage also no actual progress just litterally took the temp gun and checked stuff I already had before since I try to fix it before I even touch the forum Yellow-88 JUN 12, 08:27 PM Your EGR is NOT functioning if it's stuck open. So is engine still running poorly? "Lean" sets a diagnostic code. What codes have been set? Before you go to the forum, gather your data and present it in a way that sounds like you "know what your doing". " We" had no idea that you had actual data available. "Weirdness" is not data. Think of this as meeting with a consulting firm. What you just said is that your engine still has some pretty "basic" issues. Should you start a separate thread? cartercarbaficionado JUN 13, 04:03 PM quote Originally posted by Yellow-88: Your EGR is NOT functioning if it's stuck open. So is engine still running poorly? "Lean" sets a diagnostic code. What codes have been set? Before you go to the forum, gather your data and present it in a way that sounds like you "know what your doing". " We" had no idea that you had actual data available. "Weirdness" is not data. Think of this as meeting with a consulting firm. What you just said is that your engine still has some pretty "basic" issues. Should you start a separate thread? already have a second thread. I have like 4 for the different random issues my engine has and so far haven't gotten much on it Yellow-88 JUN 14, 11:28 AM quote Originally posted by cartercarbaficionado: already have a second thread. I have like 4 for the different random issues my engine has and so far haven't gotten much on it What is the title of that thread? cartercarbaficionado JUN 15, 12:48 AM quote Originally posted by Yellow-88: What is the title of that thread? poor fuel economy. there was another but I don't feel like looking right now after doing semi truck tires on a manual machine all day cartercarbaficionado JUL 08, 06:01 PM hasn't hit half on the gauge in months. it's been going to 3/4s and tried spewing coolant(water at this point but it gets a flush solution through it occasionally) I mean it is 95 degrees outside but I don't get it. how is it fine and then all the sudden not? the only reason I'm even worried is because it's the only running car out of 5 and it was going go get its ac repaired soon but that's extra heat don't mind the brake light it's on because the ebrake is set and the cables are disconnected from the caliper arms but still ran under the car so if its set they don't drag Yellow-88 JUL 09, 01:20 PM quote Originally posted by cartercarbaficionado: hasn't hit half on the gauge in months. it's been going to 3/4s and tried spewing coolant(water at this point but it gets a flush solution through it occasionally) I mean it is 95 degrees outside but I don't get it. how is it fine and then all the sudden not? the only reason I'm even worried is because it's the only running car out of 5 and it was going go get its ac repaired soon but that's extra heat don't mind the brake light it's on because the ebrake is set and the cables are disconnected from the caliper arms but still ran under the car so if its set they don't drag I think I see a pattern here. 5 cars and only one runs. You're overwhelming yourself. You said earlier that you don't have a "nice" Fiero because you buy the "cheep" ones. I my opinion you should pick one or two, (Go with an 88) and make it "nice". Than pick another one. One at a time. That way you'll end up with a stable instead of a junkyard. cartercarbaficionado JUL 09, 02:01 PM quote Originally posted by Yellow-88: I think I see a pattern here. 5 cars and only one runs. You're overwhelming yourself. You said earlier that you don't have a "nice" Fiero because you buy the "cheep" ones. I my opinion you should pick one or two, (Go with an 88) and make it "nice". Than pick another one. One at a time. That way you'll end up with a stable instead of a junkyard. I only have 2 fieros. those were and are still the projects. the others are 2 93 s10 blazers, a 2007 ford focus and a 99 f250 I forgot I had because it's been sitting in the woods waiting for a mechanic who never showed up. anyways the rest were daily drivers until about a month or 2 ago when both s10s had brake, transmission and engine issues so they are parked until I can get those repaired, focus wore through a brand new tire in 5 miles of normal driving somehow and decided to break every lug stud for 2 weeks straight and I just gave up and drove the 88