$100 brake upgrade (Page 34/43)
sardonyx247 JUN 05, 07:13 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:
Wow... Many problem with statements in this post. And Your are selling this upgrade.
  • Your "shot gun" approach to fix problems are common here and most other forums, lists, etc. Sorry but You have no idea or proof as to what problem are fix or hidden by big booster.
  • Big Booster will lock the brakes sooner than stock booster when everything else is same. Charts in this thread show line pressure results. Line pressure directly affects pressure on the pads. (Chart is 88 but 84-87 will see similar results.)
  • Locking brakes does not = need better tires. Even on dry pavement, most vehicles can and often will lock the front for panic stop. Locking on rear axle is Hard to Impossible to do in many vehicles. (Let's Ignoring ABS. Fiero and old cars don't have them.)
  • Comparing to S10 mean what? 3 boosters often are a sign to big changes in brakes. Example, a Light and Heavy Duty setups may need different boosters.
  • Saying "I have seen NOT ONE, not even one, person who did the upgrade, say "this sucks" not one." means very little. Most have no clue and just parrots same myths as _____ upgrades are best since slice bread. If big booster causes problems from touchy brakes then owners won't post big booster causes the wreak. If they survive, Most have no clue as to root cause of the spin-out, crash, etc.


    Since I've posted big booster could be good upgrade, I've restored my Fiero brakes. Now? Nope. I'll pass.

    Why Ogre?

    I've posted my brake restoring as above, here...
    I have NO problems in stopping the car and no fading. Fading in normal traffic, even stop and go traffic, is often a sign that calipers have problems causing dragged pads or driver w/ issues like tailgating. Rebuilt units often have problems right out of the box, especially rear ones.
    I've drive many new and old cars. My restored Fiero brakes perform as well as many new cars and SUVs.

    As I've said above, My Fiero is modified w/ left foot gas pedal.
    This adaption needs very good brakes.
    If you have Low Pedal, even a small amount, you will notice.
    You Cannot use two feet to push the brake pedal.




    • My "shot gun" approach to fix problems are common here and most other forums, lists, etc.
    What other lists? what other forums? what shotgun approach? what the hell are you talking about?

    and "Sorry but You have no idea or proof as to what problem are fix or hidden by big booster."
    I don't try to hide any problems with a bigger booster, you can see in my for sale thread, I tell people to get thier system in working order, when they say I have a problem will your booster fix this.

    I never said I got fade in normal traffic.
    theogre JUN 05, 09:15 PM

    quote
    Originally posted by sardonyx247:
    My "shot gun" approach to fix problems are common here and most other forums, lists, etc.
    What other lists? what other forums? what shotgun approach? what the hell are you talking about?

    and "Sorry but You have no idea or proof as to what problem are fix or hidden by big booster."
    I don't try to hide any problems with a bigger booster, you can see in my for sale thread, I tell people to get thier system in working order, when they say I have a problem will your booster fix this.

    I never said I got fade in normal traffic.


    "shot gun" approach means throw parts at the problem and hope something fix it.
    Just like many here will replace entire HEI system and if that fix the problem, sadly often doesn't, you still have no clue if/when problem happen again.
    PFF and Many forums etc have many of posts saying "I replace most/all of my ignition/sensors/brakes/suspension..."

    "Sorry but You have no idea or proof as to what problem are fix or hidden by big booster." Had little to do w/ sales page. I said this Because booster upgrade on your own car can fix or hide problem on your car.

    My Fade statement because you said, "I had allready swaped to drilled and slotted rotors, that got rid of ALL the brake fade,"
    How does anyone know that your fade problem was in normal traffic, in a race, etc?

    "Drilled and slotted rotors got rid of ALL the brake fade" points to poor pads for the application causing out gassing and/or dust problems.
    Drill/slot rotors can cause problems too but look in archives or use google.
    sardonyx247 JUN 05, 11:27 PM
    I am the last person to use a shotgun approach,
    I will tell people how to test thier parts
    The only time I will swap parts to test is when I have them on hand and there isn't a way to test the part.

    I aggree that alot of people do that, but I am not one
    Rebtard JUN 28, 08:25 PM
    I have gone through most of this thread, skipping over the childish come-backs, but paying extra attention when science or facts come up.

    What I am actually wondering is:
    If you are able to lock-up your wheels/brakes when you stand on the pedal, how does one make the argument that the brake pad/rotor interface is unable to provide enough grip to overpower the tire/road contact patch friction?

    Now before everyone starts throwing their off-color comments my direction, I know that brake fade after repeated stops is effected by the ability of the braking system to dissipate heat into the air and wheel. Duh. What I am really after is can someone actually provide scientific data (i.e. stopping distances before and after mod) about their experience (or lack of).

    This being my first post to the forum, I'm sure I've already miffed someone, but I have to say that stopping should have a little bit of a priority over going when it comes to motoring down the roadway.

    'Nuff Said.

    ------------------
    Knowledge isn't knowing the answer, but knowing where to find it.

    fieroguru JUN 28, 10:12 PM

    quote
    Originally posted by Rebtard:

    I have gone through most of this thread, skipping over the childish come-backs, but paying extra attention when science or facts come up.

    What I am actually wondering is:
    If you are able to lock-up your wheels/brakes when you stand on the pedal, how does one make the argument that the brake pad/rotor interface is unable to provide enough grip to overpower the tire/road contact patch friction?

    Now before everyone starts throwing their off-color comments my direction, I know that brake fade after repeated stops is effected by the ability of the braking system to dissipate heat into the air and wheel. Duh. What I am really after is can someone actually provide scientific data (i.e. stopping distances before and after mod) about their experience (or lack of).

    This being my first post to the forum, I'm sure I've already miffed someone, but I have to say that stopping should have a little bit of a priority over going when it comes to motoring down the roadway.

    'Nuff Said.





    Welcome to the forum!

    [full disclosure]
    I design and sell brake kits for Fieros so I am biased.
    [/full disclosure]

    Now your question... if you want to keep your Fiero bone stock, run 80's tires, stay under 55 mph, and drive it like a commuter car, then there is no reason to do any upgrade to your brakes.

    However, if you want to add weight to your Fiero (stereo, engine swap, body kit, etc), run wider/stickier tires, run larger diameter wheels, brake from speeds north of 75 mph, or drive the car like a sports car, then you will find benefit in some kind of brake upgrade. All of these scenarios have the ability to over tax the stock Fiero brake system.

    Some people are perfectly happy with the stopping power of their Fiero, but wish it could accomplish the same with less pedal input and a brake upgrade does this as well.

    [This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 07-05-2014).]

    fierobill JUL 05, 03:41 PM
    I put the S10 booster mod in my 88 3800SC/AT yesterday and took it out for a test drive on some back roads. Positively AWESOME! I couldn't keep the grin off my face. Braking effort was cut ~ in half which makes it much more responsive yet it was still easy to modulate. It will be much less distracting when braking during my Ax and HPDE road course events. The brakes worked very well before but I had to apply so much pressure that I couldn't modulate them very well at all. I couldn't effectively do a quick "touch" to slow the car entering a turn. Now I can and I predict it won't take long to adapt to the new braking feel. I've got an Ax event next weekend so that should be telling.

    After my first HPDE road course event I decided not to do any more until I improved my brakes. This mod. was key in determining if I needed to go to bigger wheels/brakes to get me the braking that I think I need. Now I don't think I will need to go to the larger wheels/brakes which will keep my costs down (and acceleration up).

    Core will be coming back to you shortly .... THANKS DAVE!

    Bill
    Boostdreamer JUL 05, 04:53 PM
    Everyone who has done it has posted positive results about this mod. I did it, posted on page 8, and am still happy I did it. I put about 100 miles on my Fiero DAILY, four or five days a week. It gets used a lot!!

    A few months ago, I decided that the stereo and brakes were the two worst things about my car. Since I was spending so much time in it, I knew I needed to address both problems. The bigger booster is all I did to change from listing my brakes as one of the two worst things on my car to eliminating brakes from the list completely. Again, let me say that I've been very happy with this mod and if I have another road worthy Fiero, I'll do it on that car as well.

    For argument sake, let's say my original booster had a problem. It would need to be rebuilt or replaced. If you are going to pull it out anyway, why WOULDN'T you want to step up to a part that was at least as good as brand new OEM but likely much better?

    [This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 07-05-2014).]

    Dennis LaGrua OCT 05, 07:24 PM
    This post have everything that one needs to know on doing the bigger brake booster conversion. I am considering it and bumping it up as the question of what, where, how and why still comes up.

    ------------------
    " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
    "THE COLUSSUS"
    87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
    " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

    Rodney NOV 10, 07:54 AM
    I am having HD push rods made to bolt on to these Summit S-10 boosters. No longer will you need to remove and send your old booster out (saving time, money and a lot of hassle) and receive back a rebuilt booster that has been taken apart and how has used parts installed into it. No need to worry if it was assembled correctly etc. For a lower cost you will be able to order a "new" booster from Summit and install my banjo part. My banjo part will be 5/8" in diameter and heat treated. Simply screw on this banjo part to this Summit booster (I will even include a small bottle of Locktite) and the Summit booster is ready to install in your Fiero.


    http://rodneydickman.com/ca....php?products_id=350

    Coming early next year. Thanks 85GT_3800SC for your efforts in finding a better big brake booster option.

    quote
    Originally posted by 85GT_3800SC:

    I have been watching this thread for a while now. What a great brake upgrade this is! Thanks to Phil for coming up with this idea and to his and everyone else’s posts that helped me complete my own booster installation. I did the upgrade last summer and the results are impressive. I have the Grand Am front brake upgrade with a 1994 full size Blazer master cylinder and stock rear brakes. Before installing the larger booster, I replaced all rotors (with slotted) and calipers, installed ss braided lines all around and new carbo-met brake pads. I would say the brakes were good with this much done, but with the booster upgrade, now they are great. Much less pedal effort! I am happy with the upgrade but like other members on the forum, I want to install a brand new unit for peace of mind. I was all set to buy one of Rodney’s ready-to-go boosters, but he has ended the larger booster project for some reason. This post is for those who are looking for more of a ready-made solution.

    While looking for a new booster to modify, I came across this item from Summit racing.


    It looked familiar so I went to the Tuff Stuff website for more info and found this


    Both sites showed that these boosters would fit 1973 – 1993 GM trucks. That sure increases the number of boosters that might be available in wrecking yards! But I was looking for a new/rebuilt booster.

    Well, long story short, since the booster looked like a match for the upgrade, I ordered one of these from Summit and it arrived yesterday. It is the exact same size booster as the one I used from a 96 s10 on my booster upgrade. Here is what it looks like:


    The only differences are not bad ones. The pushrod is a whopping 5/8” diameter, is much longer than the s10 pushrod, and it has a 3/8”NC thread on the rod end.


    The bolt patterns match and a new booster to master cylinder rod is included


    The pushrod is closer to the correct length to fit the Fiero. An extension to the rod end is still required. My extension uses a lock washer, a 3/8” NC coupling nut, a homemade adapter bolt (coarse to fine thread),a jam nut and a rod end I had that was 3/8”NF thread (will likely need to drill the rod end 3/8” hole out to fit the brake pedal pin).


    The mounting bracket that came with the new booster is unusable on the Fiero, and must be removed. Here’s the new booster with bracket removed and the pushrod all together.


    I will be putting it in on the next “warmer” day we have here in the “Great White North”. I don’t foresee any problems but will report back after the install.
    While not directly plug and play like Rodney’s was going to be, I think this booster offers a rugged upgrade option with a minimal amount of work required. The cost of $125 from Summit does not require a core to be sent back.




    ------------------
    Rodney Dickman

    Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
    All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
    Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
    7604 Treeview Drive
    Caledonia, WI 53108
    Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

    css9450 NOV 10, 08:58 AM

    quote
    Originally posted by Rodney:

    Simply screw on this banjo part to this Summit booster (I will even include a small bottle of Locktite) and the Summit booster is ready to install in your Fiero.




    Still need to swap over the mounting bracket from the Fiero booster I think?