$100 brake upgrade (Page 31/43)
FieroCustom FEB 05, 11:12 PM
I am pleased with the results of this swap.

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John
1955 Chevrolet 210 Sedan (Shopping list in progress)
1988 SE seized duke...next engine...1996 LQ1 found
~Future 1990 Fiero Clone?
1988 T-Top Coupe rocking 41 MPG!
1986 SE Project Mayhem
1999 F350 Crew Dually ~17mpg city 22 hwy
Wife's 2001 Saturn SL1 51MPG high score

pprbart@cs.com FEB 06, 07:41 AM
Professionals in the engineering of brakes say a larger booster will just give you less pedal effort. it will not stop your car quicker. Most recommend larger caliper pistons, better pads, and larger rotors. The booster has only a limited travel in its design and once the travel is completed its up to the rest of the system to work better. The interior diaphram has a design limit on its movement, period. Look at any cross section.
Purple86GT FEB 06, 07:45 AM

quote
Originally posted by pprbart@cs.com:

Professionals in the engineering of brakes say a larger booster will just give you less pedal effort. it will not stop your car quicker. Most recommend larger caliper pistons, better pads, and larger rotors. The booster has only a limited travel in its design and once the travel is completed its up to the rest of the system to work better. The interior diaphram has a design limit on its movement, period. Look at any cross section.



That is correct, but there is less human effort. Some of us were not able to acheive max clamping pressure without having 2 feet on the pedal. This will not resolve brake fade. I still feel this is a good upgrade. Upgrading the rest (braded lines, bigger rotors, quality pads and better calipers) is also a good idea.

[This message has been edited by Purple86GT (edited 02-06-2013).]

theogre FEB 06, 02:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by Purple86GT:
That is correct, but there is less human effort. Some of us were not able to acheive max clamping pressure without having 2 feet on the pedal. This will not resolve brake fade. I still feel this is a good upgrade. Upgrading the rest (braded lines, bigger rotors, quality pads and better calipers) is also a good idea.


Most times means old booster or vac line to it has problems, brake system has problems, etc.
Far too many cases Bigger booster is a Band-Aid that hides other problems.

Often Fixing an old car's brakes is not cheap or easy.
I have restored my OE brakes and I can easily stop w/ one foot. Good or better than then car was new.
Good thing since my car uses left foot gas pedal (example)
The cost? $500 to 600, likely more I didn't save all the receipts. Some highlights...
Front... New rotors wheel bearings and seals, ThermoQuiet pads, new rubber hoses and crush washers/seals. The front calipers were okay.
Rear... New rotors, ThermoQuiet pads, new rubber lines and crush washers/seals, DIY rebuilt calipers with new pistons. New parking brake cables for both wheels, main cable was okay. (Fortunately my car doesn't have the rust problem that many people do...)
I replace the master cylinder when it died six years ago.
A quart or two of good DOT4 fluid.
87 L4 Doesn't use the booster filter. I did check the booster's check valve and vac line to make sure it was clean and working.

Compared Fiero brakes performance to most any other cars built at the same time or even now, Many had stopping distance are the same or very close to Fiero. Fiero brakes was not design for Racing etc... Only to stop a cheap commuter car which Fiero really is.
Purple86GT FEB 06, 02:11 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:


Compared Fiero brakes performance to most any other cars built at the same time or even now, Many had stopping distance are the same or very close to Fiero. Fiero brakes was not design for Racing etc... Only to stop a cheap commuter car which Fiero really is.



This is why we are doing upgrades. I'm swapping a 3800SC engine and have wheels that are bigger and wider than what the Fiero was designed for. A bit more stopping power would eb a good idea. The booster in my opinion is a good swap if used on a healthybrake system and it would also be a good idea to upgrade some components. I have rear grand-am setup right now. I'm thinking of doing all 4 corners with Grand-AM brakes.
Curtisk1060 FEB 25, 12:47 PM
Thanks!, this is excactly the articles and links I was searching for. Curtis
Boostdreamer APR 30, 09:47 PM
I got mine from sardonyx247

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/060500.html

I put mine in on Wednesday and I could tell a difference. I didn't think it was "night and day" different but it was better. I wasn't disappointed but also wasn't thrilled. Then the next day, I was talking to another Fiero guy and he brought up the subject of rear calipers and the need to use the parking brake periodically to keep the brakes adjusted. That got me thinking.....

So, I went out and pulled my e-brake and let it back off again. I had not used it in a while because I didn't want the brakes to freeze up through the winter. Then I went driving and that is when the magic happened! Now I see what everyone was talking about! Now I agree, "night and day" difference for sure! Very glad I did this mod!

I did have a few problems. Nothing major really, just me not doing everything in the right order and remembering stuff. I did cut down the four bolts on the booster that point toward the firewall as installed. They would have made tightening the mounting nuts EXTREMELY difficult if I had not done it.



Speaking of tightening the mounting nuts, you really don't want to start this swap unless you have a ratcheting box-end wrench. In fact, two would be better. You need a 15mm and a 13mm. A set of four metric ratcheting wrenches can be had at China Freight for reasonable money. Just so you know, you will need a 10mm wrench also to remove the screw that holds the brace between the booster and the distribution block thing that the brake lines run out of.



To make the dent in the fender wall, I cut about 5 inches off a leather belt and taped it over the balled end of a ball peen hammer. Then I wacked the crap out of the fender. I think it minimized the damage.

I had to cut my white plastic tube that covers the rubber bellows and fits into the firewall. I could not get it to slide far enough onto the bellows so I had to cut about 3/4" off. There is a step moulded into it there and that is where I cut it.

Let me warn you to be sure to remember to put the little metal rod in that faces toward the master cylinder! Every time I had to adjust something, that piece would fall out and I'd set it aside and then forget it when I was putting the booster back in. Grrrrrr!

Another thing you need to know is that the fitting where you connect your vacuum hose is an incorrect larger size. The good news is that this is just a press-in part that you can pull out by hand and then re-use the one from the original booster.

The last thing I should inform you of is the brake lights issue. When you are doing this work and you remove the rod from the brake pedal, there will be nothing holding the pedal in its normal upward resting position. Therefore, it will be hanging downward toward the floor and firewall. The car thinks the brake pedal has your foot on it pressing it forward and that turns the brake lights on. And keeps them on! I don't know how long I worked before I walked behind the car and noticed the lights on. I disconnected the battery to solve that problem. These are the two switches that are activated by the brake pedal. One is for the brake lights and the other is for the cruise control.



My only on-going problem is that I disturbed a white plastic switch under the dash when I was under there putting the rod onto the brake pedal. Now my cruise control will not engage. Can anyone tell me how to re-set that piece or give me any information on what my problem might be? That would be appreciated.

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 05-01-2014).]

dcarrd MAY 30, 07:10 PM
the whole post was a great read, arguments and all lol..
Any updates on reliability, durability, performance??
Did Rodney ever make the adjustable banjo kit?
Is anyone still modifying these?
Has anyone tried different brake component setups with the booster? determined which works better?

Currently my brakes are stock but Im looking to do the Grand Am upgrade unless the booster alone matches the GA swap...
PaulJK MAY 31, 12:47 AM

quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer:

My only on-going problem is that I disturbed a whte plastic switch under the dash when I was under there putting the rod onto the brake pedal. Now my cruise control will not engage. Can anyone tell me how to re-set that piece or give me any information on what my problem might be? That would be appreciated.




That white plastic piece has a plunger at the end that contacts the brake pedal. When the brake is off (pedal at rest), the plunger is pressed in. When the brake is applied, the brake pedal moves away from the plunger and the plunger is out (dis-engaging your cruise control). It sounds like your plunger is out and the plunger thinks your brake is on, so it is turning off your cruise control. With your brake pedal off (at rest), push the white plastic fitting into its holder as far as it will go. This should allow the plunger to press against the brake pedal, allowing your cruise control to turn on.

By the way, you should try to "panic stop" after you install the bigger booster. When i tried mine, i got resistance from the brake pedal - it would not press down for about a second. I was not comfortable with this, so i upgraded to the bigger master cylinder and it solved the problem.

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 05-31-2014).]

I FAR I MAY 31, 04:57 PM
What part # or parts vehicle did you use for the bigger master cylinder?

Thanks


quote
Originally posted by PaulJK:


That white plastic piece has a plunger at the end that contacts the brake pedal. When the brake is off (pedal at rest), the plunger is pressed in. When the brake is applied, the brake pedal moves away from the plunger and the plunger is out (dis-engaging your cruise control). It sounds like your plunger is out and the plunger thinks your brake is on, so it is turning off your cruise control. With your brake pedal off (at rest), push the white plastic fitting into its holder as far as it will go. This should allow the plunger to press against the brake pedal, allowing your cruise control to turn on.

By the way, you should try to "panic stop" after you install the bigger booster. When i tried mine, i got resistance from the brake pedal - it would not press down for about a second. I was not comfortable with this, so i upgraded to the bigger master cylinder and it solved the problem.