Few small questions that don't deserve a whole topic (Page 3/4)
82-T/A [At Work] APR 26, 09:05 AM

quote
Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT:

Yeah, that's part of the problem, I did so much over the winter I can't tell what helped and what didn't haha, I now have the 88 alternator, so didn't need the smaller alternator pulley, but yes the idler pulley is really nice, and I'm sure the power pulley helps some. I did the exhaust, and coil, but haven't touched the intake yet, never found 100% clear instructions for that, and I'm only 18, so I haven't had enough "experience" to have had a car that was neglected enough that seafoam fixed anything haha.




Dude, I always forget you're 18. You are so much more mature and responsible at 18 than I was. When I was your age, I was spending all my time trying to illegally buy alcohol from the local "Farm Store," and going to Jazz Clubs (couldn't stand jazz) so I could hit on the "older women" (who were in their early 30s), hahah. I'm so glad my daughter doesn't come onto Pennocks all that often, even though she talks about it.

So... yeah... not much instructions really that you need, these pictures will answer everything:




As you can see in the 1999 Sony Movica 640x480 floppy-disk digital camera picture, the fact that our cars have an EGR valve causes "staining" on the imperfections in the intake. Essentially, any part of the intake that is protruding out, and not properly matched to its aligning port, is stained black. This is perfect because THIS is where you need to grind away. You basically ONLY want to grind away where you see the staining... and no where else. You want to do both sides of each of the components, and this will ensure a smother transition. GM did what they could, but the ports don't align perfectly... so you just grind away the excess. You'll want to grind the port openings from the intake plenum to the runners... and then port both sides of the runners (top where it matches the plenum, and bottom where it makes the intake manifold), and then grind away at the stained areas also on the intake manifold ports where they meet the runners, and of course, also grind away at the intake manifold ports where they meet the cyl heads. You obviously don't want to port the cyl head while it's on teh car, so you can just leave that alone.

I can't remember what the "total number" is... but you should see something like 6-8 horsepower increase from this. When you grind away... you really want to go as far back (into the intake as possible... what you don't want to do is make it look like this between where the ports line-up:




You want to get it as close to this as possible...


I have a lot of stuff documented on here: https://www.pontiacperforma...des_Performance.html

But also, I did this when I was 22... like 24 years ago, and in notepad. So some of it is incorrect, or just less then entirely right.
1985 Fiero GT APR 26, 09:16 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Dude, I always forget you're 18. You are so much more mature and responsible at 18 than I was. When I was your age, I was spending all my time trying to illegally buy alcohol from the local "Farm Store," and going to Jazz Clubs (couldn't stand jazz) so I could hit on the "older women" (who were in their early 30s), hahah. I'm so glad my daughter doesn't come onto Pennocks all that often, even though she talks about it.

So... yeah... not much instructions really that you need, these pictures will answer everything:




As you can see in the 1999 Sony Movica 640x480 floppy-disk digital camera picture, the fact that our cars have an EGR valve causes "staining" on the imperfections in the intake. Essentially, any part of the intake that is protruding out, and not properly matched to its aligning port, is stained black. This is perfect because THIS is where you need to grind away. You basically ONLY want to grind away where you see the staining... and no where else. You want to do both sides of each of the components, and this will ensure a smother transition. GM did what they could, but the ports don't align perfectly... so you just grind away the excess. You'll want to grind the port openings from the intake plenum to the runners... and then port both sides of the runners (top where it matches the plenum, and bottom where it makes the intake manifold), and then grind away at the stained areas also on the intake manifold ports where they meet the runners, and of course, also grind away at the intake manifold ports where they meet the cyl heads. You obviously don't want to port the cyl head while it's on teh car, so you can just leave that alone.

I can't remember what the "total number" is... but you should see something like 6-8 horsepower increase from this. When you grind away... you really want to go as far back (into the intake as possible... what you don't want to do is make it look like this between where the ports line-up:




You want to get it as close to this as possible...


I have a lot of stuff documented on here: https://www.pontiacperforma...des_Performance.html

But also, I did this when I was 22... like 24 years ago, and in notepad. So some of it is incorrect, or just less then entirely right.



Lots of people think I'm older then I am haha, I'm dated by what I'm interesting in (Fieros and listening through the lone Ranger radio series, 1930s to 50s), as for the porting, I get that part, but I haven't been to deep into the intake yet so don't know how all the parts connect, names for them, and how to disassemble everything to do that, I've only had the very top part and one valve cover off (plenum? Said Fiero on it) to paint it.
82-T/A [At Work] APR 26, 10:54 AM

quote
Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT:

Lots of people think I'm older then I am haha, I'm dated by what I'm interesting in (Fieros and listening through the lone Ranger radio series, 1930s to 50s), as for the porting, I get that part, but I haven't been to deep into the intake yet so don't know how all the parts connect, names for them, and how to disassemble everything to do that, I've only had the very top part and one valve cover off (plenum? Said Fiero on it) to paint it.




I'll give you the trailer park definition, but I'm hoping someone can better explain than I can... but I think what we have is called a "tuned length" intake system, where each of the intake ports have an equal length "runner" from the intake plenum to the cyl head.

There are THREE major components:

- Intake Plenum (the red thing on the top... 1987-1988 versions got an engraved FIERO, 85-86 got a sticker)
- Intake Runners (the upside down octopus looking thing)
- Intake Manifold (the part that the runners connect to, and the piece that bolts directly to the engine and between the cyl heads)


All of these can be fairly easily removed... but removing the intake manifold requires you to remove the distributor also, and will likely need new gaskets when you put it back. You don't have to really worry about breaking anything when you remove these parts. The ONLY thing I'd be concerned about are the vacuum lines that connect all the things... after ~35 years, they're probably going to start getting brittle... so just be careful when you remove them.

Port-matching the intake pieces will give you a much better mid-range and top-end performance.
1985 Fiero GT APR 26, 11:07 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I'll give you the trailer park definition, but I'm hoping someone can better explain than I can... but I think what we have is called a "tuned length" intake system, where each of the intake ports have an equal length "runner" from the intake plenum to the cyl head.

There are THREE major components:

- Intake Plenum (the red thing on the top... 1987-1988 versions got an engraved FIERO, 85-86 got a sticker)
- Intake Runners (the upside down octopus looking thing)
- Intake Manifold (the part that the runners connect to, and the piece that bolts directly to the engine and between the cyl heads)


All of these can be fairly easily removed... but removing the intake manifold requires you to remove the distributor also, and will likely need new gaskets when you put it back. You don't have to really worry about breaking anything when you remove these parts. The ONLY thing I'd be concerned about are the vacuum lines that connect all the things... after ~35 years, they're probably going to start getting brittle... so just be careful when you remove them.

Port-matching the intake pieces will give you a much better mid-range and top-end performance.



I used to live in a trailer park, so that works for me haha, as long as there's no big things to watch out for, like the exhaust manifold bolts, I should be good, I think I was going to do all that, but got stopped by the fuel rail, anything I need to know about removal of that? As for my vacuum lines, they are about as good as they can be haha, my Fiero is in very good overall condition, except for bad paint haha, my dad's Fiero is the opposite of that, not unreliable, but leaks a bit, is slower then an auto Fiero, and just feels "loose and worn out" but has good paint, we make quite the pair at car shows, his all closed so people see the shape, and the paint, mine opened up so people see my nice interior, engine bay and frunk, but don't see the mediocre paint.
olejoedad APR 26, 12:30 PM
If you do the head/lower intake gaskets, DO NOT CUT the gaskets to make the job easier.
You MUST loosen the rockers and remove the pushrods to change the gaskets.
82-T/A [At Work] APR 26, 12:56 PM

quote
Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT:

I used to live in a trailer park, so that works for me haha, as long as there's no big things to watch out for, like the exhaust manifold bolts, I should be good, I think I was going to do all that, but got stopped by the fuel rail, anything I need to know about removal of that? As for my vacuum lines, they are about as good as they can be haha, my Fiero is in very good overall condition, except for bad paint haha, my dad's Fiero is the opposite of that, not unreliable, but leaks a bit, is slower then an auto Fiero, and just feels "loose and worn out" but has good paint, we make quite the pair at car shows, his all closed so people see the shape, and the paint, mine opened up so people see my nice interior, engine bay and frunk, but don't see the mediocre paint.




No, it's really not a hard job. I'd just say that you'll want to take your time, and not something you want to rush. That's because you want to take your time so you can really get the most out of the port-matching to really improve the flow... rather than rushing it. Expect to take it apart on Friday, do all the port-matching on Saturday, and then do the re-assembly on Sunday.

While you're at it, I would do the following:

- Replace all the intake gaskets (see oldjoedad's comment above, I completely forgot about that)
- Torque the bolts down properly, don't tighten them down by hand as hard as you can. You're really going for the correct torque, not too much.
- Put a couple of rags in there to catch the fuel when you disconnect the fuel rail (disconnect the battery first).
- Take pictures so you remember where everything goes.


AND... if you can spare the coin, you may want to seriously consider getting a set of CompCams 1.6:1 roller rocker arms. This will effectively give you the same power improvement you would see by swapping in a CraneCam H260 camshaft. It increases the lift. It can be ordered as a kit for about $158 bucks. I only mention this because you're going to have to remove the rocker arms anyway (see Old Joe Dad's comment), so you might as well replace the rocker arms with performance ones while you're out there. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-1416-12

Doing both of those things... you can likely pick up ~10hp from those two mods together.
1985 Fiero GT APR 26, 01:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
No, it's really not a hard job. I'd just say that you'll want to take your time, and not something you want to rush. That's because you want to take your time so you can really get the most out of the port-matching to really improve the flow... rather than rushing it. Expect to take it apart on Friday, do all the port-matching on Saturday, and then do the re-assembly on Sunday.

While you're at it, I would do the following:

- Replace all the intake gaskets (see oldjoedad's comment above, I completely forgot about that)
- Torque the bolts down properly, don't tighten them down by hand as hard as you can. You're really going for the correct torque, not too much.
- Put a couple of rags in there to catch the fuel when you disconnect the fuel rail (disconnect the battery first).
- Take pictures so you remember where everything goes.


AND... if you can spare the coin, you may want to seriously consider getting a set of CompCams 1.6:1 roller rocker arms. This will effectively give you the same power improvement you would see by swapping in a CraneCam H260 camshaft. It increases the lift. It can be ordered as a kit for about $158 bucks. I only mention this because you're going to have to remove the rocker arms anyway (see Old Joe Dad's comment), so you might as well replace the rocker arms with performance ones while you're out there. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-1416-12

Doing both of those things... you can likely pick up ~10hp from those two mods together.



Ok, I very well might do this. As for the rockers, will that increase wear on the camshaft, or will it basically not matter. I will wait for doing this until I've decided whether to stick with the paint I've currently got on my intake and rear valve cover, or whether to go with the por15 stuff, still looking for more "reviews" on that.

With all that stuff removed from the engine, how much more work is it to remove the heads? I have 4 broken exhaust manifold bolts (evenly spaced, so I could live with it as is) of it is easy, what else would I do while in there, prices, etc.

You guys are finding me more things to do haha, right now I have my seasonal job changing tires, so I do have some money, but I can't spend it all our I'll have no money when summer comes and I'm back at Walmart haha.
82-T/A [At Work] APR 26, 01:26 PM

quote
Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT:

Ok, I very well might do this. As for the rockers, will that increase wear on the camshaft, or will it basically not matter. I will wait for doing this until I've decided whether to stick with the paint I've currently got on my intake and rear valve cover, or whether to go with the por15 stuff, still looking for more "reviews" on that.

With all that stuff removed from the engine, how much more work is it to remove the heads? I have 4 broken exhaust manifold bolts (evenly spaced, so I could live with it as is) of it is easy, what else would I do while in there, prices, etc.

You guys are finding me more things to do haha, right now I have my seasonal job changing tires, so I do have some money, but I can't spend it all our I'll have no money when summer comes and I'm back at Walmart haha.




Ok, so... a few things:

- Will the rockers increase wear to the camshaft? : Not really... the lifters don't change, only the rocker arms do. They do add a bit more pressure onto the cam, but only slightly. Since your cam is already well broken in, you're not really going to see any wear. I generally wouldn't recommend doing this on a NEW cam that isn't broken in, but on a motor that's already broken in, you won't have any adverse reactions. They also offer 1.52:1 ratio rocker arms, which basically "blueprint" the specs if you will... since the factory rocker arms are a 1.5:1 ratio. One of the other benefits of course is that they're roller-tipped, so they don't create as much wear on the top of the valves, and allow the valves to spin more easily. In theory, this reduces overall friction and reduces temperatures up there, among other things. I had the 1.52:1 roller rockers on my car from back in the day, and I thought they were decent. I was scared away from the 1.6:1s for the same reason as you, but I've never actually seen a single person with the 1.6:1 rocker arms ever complain about anything, except having more horsepower. I'm going with 1.52:1 roller rockers (again) because I'm going to be swapping out the factory cam to an H272 cam, which is effectively the same as going with the H260 cam and 1.6:1 roller rocker arms.

- I don't really know anything about the Por15, other than that this is generally used to seal areas that are heavily prone to rust, or that get exposed to rust... like the entire underside of a Volkswagen Bus. What is it you're using it for again? I painted my valve covers on my Fiero with Ford Engine Red Duplicolor paint. Never had an issue, and it looked almost identical. I painted both valve covers and the intake plenum. Never had an issue, and never flaked. The original paint was flaking off though, which is why I repainted all of it.

- As for the cyl heads... ok. They're not hard to remove... just remember that you'll need to buy NEW cyl head bolts (can't reuse them), AND... you have to be very careful with the torque wrench. Back in the day, when I was maybe a year older than you. I had to take a cyl head off as well because an exhaust bolt broke off. Well.. everything was great and I was putting the cyl head back on, and I ripped the threads right out of the block. I had to have it towed to a local shop where they put a helicoil in it and then put the head back on for me. I only caution this because until you've practiced with a torque wrench, you don't want a cyl head bolt to be the first time you've used it. There's a lot of nuance to the click-type... both in how you set it up, and breaking it in as well. So just be careful... EDIT: You'll also need new head gaskets. If you order a FelPro head gasket set, you'll get all the gaskets you need, top and bottom.

- Also on the cyl head. I stupidly dropped $1,400 bucks on a set of super-nice ported and blended cyl heads from ARI Racing (3.4 heads). They also had the SI Stainless Steel tulip-valves installed on them. So why am I telling you this? Well, you probably also know that I just bought a 3.4 Long Block (DCC9), which was completely rebuilt with a warranty. Well, sure enough, they also come with a set of completely rebuilt cyl heads ... which I won't need. So, you're welcome to them. They are totally magnufluxed, new springs, new retainers, brand new valves, you name it. Of course, you're in Canada... so shipping is going to be insane. But I'm happy to give you them for free, so long as you pay for shipping. You'll have to wait though, I don't expect to even get them off the engine until my daughter frees up an engine stand and puts her engine back in the car... which will probably be the end of summer. But if you want them, I'll save them for you...

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 04-26-2024).]

1985 Fiero GT APR 26, 02:11 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Ok, so... a few things:

- Will the rockers increase wear to the camshaft? : Not really... the lifters don't change, only the rocker arms do. They do add a bit more pressure onto the cam, but only slightly. Since your cam is already well broken in, you're not really going to see any wear. I generally wouldn't recommend doing this on a NEW cam that isn't broken in, but on a motor that's already broken in, you won't have any adverse reactions. They also offer 1.52:1 ratio rocker arms, which basically "blueprint" the specs if you will... since the factory rocker arms are a 1.5:1 ratio. One of the other benefits of course is that they're roller-tipped, so they don't create as much wear on the top of the valves, and allow the valves to spin more easily. In theory, this reduces overall friction and reduces temperatures up there, among other things. I had the 1.52:1 roller rockers on my car from back in the day, and I thought they were decent. I was scared away from the 1.6:1s for the same reason as you, but I've never actually seen a single person with the 1.6:1 rocker arms ever complain about anything, except having more horsepower. I'm going with 1.52:1 roller rockers (again) because I'm going to be swapping out the factory cam to an H272 cam, which is effectively the same as going with the H260 cam and 1.6:1 roller rocker arms.

- I don't really know anything about the Por15, other than that this is generally used to seal areas that are heavily prone to rust, or that get exposed to rust... like the entire underside of a Volkswagen Bus. What is it you're using it for again? I painted my valve covers on my Fiero with Ford Engine Red Duplicolor paint. Never had an issue, and it looked almost identical. I painted both valve covers and the intake plenum. Never had an issue, and never flaked. The original paint was flaking off though, which is why I repainted all of it.

- As for the cyl heads... ok. They're not hard to remove... just remember that you'll need to buy NEW cyl head bolts (can't reuse them), AND... you have to be very careful with the torque wrench. Back in the day, when I was maybe a year older than you. I had to take a cyl head off as well because an exhaust bolt broke off. Well.. everything was great and I was putting the cyl head back on, and I ripped the threads right out of the block. I had to have it towed to a local shop where they put a helicoil in it and then put the head back on for me. I only caution this because until you've practiced with a torque wrench, you don't want a cyl head bolt to be the first time you've used it. There's a lot of nuance to the click-type... both in how you set it up, and breaking it in as well. So just be careful... EDIT: You'll also need new head gaskets. If you order a FelPro head gasket set, you'll get all the gaskets you need, top and bottom.

- Also on the cyl head. I stupidly dropped $1,400 bucks on a set of super-nice ported and blended cyl heads from ARI Racing (3.4 heads). They also had the SI Stainless Steel tulip-valves installed on them. So why am I telling you this? Well, you probably also know that I just bought a 3.4 Long Block (DCC9), which was completely rebuilt with a warranty. Well, sure enough, they also come with a set of completely rebuilt cyl heads ... which I won't need. So, you're welcome to them. They are totally magnufluxed, new springs, new retainers, brand new valves, you name it. Of course, you're in Canada... so shipping is going to be insane. But I'm happy to give you them for free, so long as you pay for shipping. You'll have to wait though, I don't expect to even get them off the engine until my daughter frees up an engine stand and puts her engine back in the car... which will probably be the end of summer. But if you want them, I'll save them for you...




Ok, por15 has a whole range of products, including some medium temp finishing paints in a spray can, the duplicolor I used is a good color, but the finish didn't come out perfectly, and it seems like it will chip really easily, so if it degrades, I'll pull it all and redo it.

As for the heads, that's very kind of you, I have a USPS box in Maine, so shipping wouldn't be too bad, from my bedroom window I see more of the US then Canada haha, and I go across weekly, the third Fiero owner within 2 hours happens to be a border guard at the crossing nearest me, what a coincidence!

I have a standard torque wrench, like you would use on a wheel, and know generally how to use it (at least on wheels, that's my seasonal job, tire changing), would that be the right kind?

I would buy the 1.6 rockers for your cylinder heads right? Other then that they are about as good as one can get easily performance wise, or is there still stuff to be done to them? For the 1.6, they increase hp, do they do that across the rpm range, or do they decrease the low end torque to do that?
82-T/A [At Work] APR 26, 02:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT:

As for the heads, that's very kind of you, I have a USPS box in Maine, so shipping wouldn't be too bad, from my bedroom window I see more of the US then Canada haha, and I go across weekly, the third Fiero owner within 2 hours happens to be a border guard at the crossing nearest me, what a coincidence!

I have a standard torque wrench, like you would use on a wheel, and know generally how to use it (at least on wheels, that's my seasonal job, tire changing), would that be the right kind?

I would buy the 1.6 rockers for your cylinder heads right? Other then that they are about as good as one can get easily performance wise, or is there still stuff to be done to them? For the 1.6, they increase hp, do they do that across the rpm range, or do they decrease the low end torque to do that?




Yeah, I can totally ship them to Canada, it won't be that bad. I'll have to figure out how best to ship them. They are heavy, so it MAY be better for me to ship them individually via USPS Priority (which has a 70 pound limit within a certain size). That's probably the best option.

For the standard torque wrench. Yes and no... it's OK, you just have to make sure you're careful with torquing down the bolts. The bolts are designed to stretch naturally (which is why they cannot be re-used). Don't ask me why they designed them this way, or why that's a good thing, but they do that. So when you are torquing with a flex torque wrench, as the bolt settles and stretches, the "tension" indicator will decrease (because there's literally less torque since the bolts are stretching), so there's a tendency to want to keep torquing down the bolts... and that's how you can end up breaking the threads or snapping the bolts. An alternative to this is to use ARP studs. They're hardened and can be reused several times (and don't stretch).

Well... you could wait until you get my cyl heads, but you can install them on the ones you have now too. The rocker arms come off super easy, and you don't need to remove the cyl heads to install them. It's just a single nut, and then you have to adjust the valve lash... which is as simple as basically taking your two fingers and twisting the pushrod as you torque down the rocker arm. As soon as you can no longer freely spin it, then I think you back off a quarter turn (something like that)... and magically, valve lash set.

So... you could put them on now, and then swap them over to my cyl heads when you get them. They can be reused because they don't really take any wear. Ideally, just remember from where you removed them... that way you can keep the same pushrods (in the same direction) in the same location. Just that much less "re-breaking in" needed with the new heads.


But yeah, you'll notice a big difference with the 1.6:1 rocker arms. It's basically like installing a hotter camshaft.

Like I said though, I'm actually installing a hotter camshaft, so that's why I'm sticking to the 1.52:1 because I don't need even MORE lift. But, I do want the tip and reduced wear/heat.