1988 Fiero Formula - auto transmission fluid leak (Page 3/4)
Mickey_Moose JUL 18, 03:40 PM
You should have no problem finding stainless steel line in the UK.

Just pull the OEM line out and measure what you need. You can buy cheap benders and do it yourself.

I know here in Canada (where shipping from the Fiero Store also costs a fortune) I would consider doing something like this. I can buy SS line locally (local Swagelok dealer, you may have one of those in the UK) in 10' lengths which should be long enough (but I am guessing) - however they can also orbital weld 2 pieces together if not long enough. Cut the fittings off the end and install on your new line (you should be able to rent a flare tool I would think).

The only thing with this route is it would not include the gravel guard - but if one looks hard enough, may also find that as well locally.
sleek fiero JUL 18, 04:25 PM
Hi Brian; you Probably don't need anymore opinions but here I go. If it was my car I would use the braided hydraulic line. It is tough ,heat resistant and vibration resistant. #4 or #6 hydraulic line can handle up to 5000 psi which i know the cooler lines run at a very low pressure but they won't rust either. The hydraulic shop can crimp on the correct inverted flair fittings and supply rubber or plastic coated steel clamps that fit well and can be bolted where the factory clamps were. Ask anybody from the racing world what they use for their coolers and remote filters and you will find out they would never use a hard line especially stainless as it is brittle and subject to vibration damage. just my opinion and maybe you are trying to keep it stock. sleek
br1anstorm JUL 20, 08:07 AM
Well this is getting interesting.... and maybe even a bit controversial!

It looks as if I'm still faced with three possible options, and each time I look at this forum the balance of opinion changes.

1) replacement rigid (stainless steel) lines from a supplier like the Fiero Store. The Ogre is firmly in favour of this. Yes, it's what was originally designed, and s/s lines should be robust. However, they're expensive, mainly because of the shipping cost to UK. And (though I'm not at that point yet) I suspect they will not be easy to install: how do you thread the pre-formed lines through the steering gear and into the rear subframe without bending/breaking/removing things?

2) locally-fabricated replacements made of "cunifer" (or maybe stainless steel). Cunifer is easier to make up, as the tube is softer, and it doesn't rust. But still needs pipe-benders, and also flaring and connector-fittings. Probably slightly easier to install, but still a bit of a challenge. If any additional protection is needed, I like the idea of heat-shrink tubing. My local workshop reckons they might be able to do it (they replaced all my brake lines some years ago). But they thought the labour-cost and time required would result in a price not far off the Fiero Store pre-formed s/s lines.

3) braided flexible hoses. Almost certainly cheaper than preformed s/s or made-up cunifer rigid lines. Technically, they would be capable of handling the pressure and temperatures involved. Would still need a workshop to fit the connectors. But installation would be much easier. And - despite what the Ogre says - I think the fact that race and rally cars use braided hose with no problems says a lot about their suitability and reliability.

Choices, choices.... I really didn't think it would be so hard to decide!
sleek fiero JUL 20, 10:26 AM
You can get reusable fittings you install yourself with a couple of hand tools. they should be available at an autoparts store or hydraulic shop. they do work well if you use care installing them. By the way the closest I've been to Scotland is my dog is a Shetland Sheepdog. haha sleek
theogre JUL 20, 11:01 AM
Again, I Do Not "approve" buying preform lines.
Shipping Damage alone is a "big deal" because of where you are and can't ship back to return.
New SS lines shipped bent to reduce cost and space but easily damage shipping internationally w/o adding more protection that cost more to ship. So any kink line is "bad" and need fixing by compression fitting(s) etc.

these lines can bent/bow/wiggle enough to go into front area and maybe the back. May need to remove the "Tire wall" or parts of steering column to get more room to work.
Some Cradle Bolts may need to remove or loosen to clear. I haven't seen 88 changes if any for them.

Get car on a lift and look.
If using a jack, see cave Safe Jacking

cunifer/copper... You can get nearly the cheapest benders etc and bend/flare the lines and throw away them when done and still cost way less.
You don't have to be a expert to bend this and doesn't have to be 100% copied. Only some areas are maybe need close to 100% like say the upper bend @ rad because of tight fit. That May need cut and flare then bend.

Quick search @ amazon...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ma...uminum/dp/B07TT28B56 £12.99
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Su...g-Tube/dp/B08DD9ZL62 £13.99
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fl...uminum/dp/B09BD1SPKZ £20.49

either bender should work. some bends look better or bent tighter w/ one or other depending where is at.

You likely don't need to heat shrink all the line. only areas clamp to frame and maybe other places where "hits" steel. Mainly water/dirt can sit in those spots to cause rust holes. And SS lines can "rust" too and for same reason... 2 dissimilar metals touching is often bad. Many Factory SS Coolant Pipes under the rocker panels have Holes rotted where 2 support "clamps" hold them.

90+% of Rally/race cars don't go to MOT and route whatever Flex anywhere they want means Nothing to any street vehicle.
While may use the public streets, Most times the streets are Closed and MOT isn't required for most racing and whatever safety inspection is way different. Example: MOT likely will Fail a car w/ 4 or 5 point racing seat belts because Those are Illegal for street use in many countries.
Rick Vanderpool JUL 20, 02:49 PM
If you decide to go with the preformed tubing option order from Inline Tube. The Fiero Store item is the same part and more expensive.
br1anstorm JUL 21, 01:42 PM
Rick - thanks for that thought. I had found both Inline Tube (in Michigan) and Classic Tube (in New York) as makers of replacement pre-formed tubes. I guessed that one or the other might well be the supplier to The Fiero Store, and I've been in contact with both.

It's true that Inline Tube replacements are cheaper. In fact they offer both "OE" (mild steel) and S/S (stainless steel) versions. But - sadly - they won't ship internationally. And when I explored the possibility of having Inline Tube deliver them to a US-based forwarding agent for onward shipment to UK, the agent quoted a ludicrous amount (over $2000) for the shipping. Apparently Fedex, and probably other courier firms, regard the package as "oversized" and charge accordingly.

Classic Tube lines were more expensive ($180). They are willing to ship internationally, and at a much more sensible price ($135). So if i go for pre-formed replacements, it's a choice between TFS (the devil I know!) and Classic Tube (the devil I don't...).

Before deciding, I plan to talk in more detail to a local hydraulic hose specialist about the feasibility - and cost - of making up replacement lines from braided hose.

[This message has been edited by br1anstorm (edited 07-25-2023).]

br1anstorm JUL 25, 06:17 PM
The saga continues.... I'm still wrestling with the problem of how to deal with, and replace, the leaking auto tranny coolant lines.

While I contemplate the choice of replacement lines, I have two specific questions for those who have dealt with this problem before - or frequently!

One, any tips or advice on how to undo the two threaded connector fittings at the front end of the lines which then go into the cooler itself in/beside the radiator? I'm applying PB Blaster, but after more than 30 years, the connections are seriously tight and immovable, and there is not much space to manoeuvre a spanner (=wrench). I don't want to risk wrecking the cooler/radiator body itself, which seems to be made of plastic - so heat isn't an option.

Two, since a lot of the tranny fluid has leaked away, the car is currently undriveable and sitting up on blocks in my driveway. If I do need to get it to a workshop, can I get it going temporarily without damaging the auto transmission by bypassing/isolating the cooling circuit, and then refilling the tranny with fluid?

Looking at the lines at the rear of the car where they connect to the auto tranny, both lines end with rubber hoses which then connect, using just jubilee hose clamps, to the short rigid pipes on the side of the auto box housing. Can I simply loop a short piece of hose between these 'out' and 'in' pipes, refill with fluid, and drive the car? How far can I take the car, safely, without damage to the transmission, and at what speed, with - in effect - no cooling of the fluid?

[This message has been edited by br1anstorm (edited 07-25-2023).]

olejoedad JUL 25, 07:12 PM
Cut the lines at the fitting and use a socket.

Yes, you can loop the lines and drive the car several miles.
br1anstorm JUL 26, 05:43 PM
Thanks @olejoedad. It's always good to get advice and reassurance from veterans and experts who have been down these roads before.

The comment about looping the coolant lines to enable the car to be driven (gently and only a short distance) is very helpful.

When I've got the replacement lines ready and waiting, I'll have a serious go at removing the old ones. Chopping the pipes near the fitting is a realistic, if somewhat drastic option. But as the old lines are corroding and leaky anyway, it's no loss.

And I suppose that if the fittings still refuse to budge, I can use the "stubs" which remain and connect new replacemnt lines (whether rigid or flexible) to them.....