Can a battery maintainer ruin your battery? (Page 3/4)
sanderson231 JUN 01, 05:23 PM
I bought a maintainer called BatteryMINDer. They are about $55 on Amazon. It is 1.5 amps and is also supposed to be able to desulfate batteries. I've had a back-up battery on it for about 2 months. I just checked the voltage with a multimeter and it is holding 13.2 volts. So an experiment is in progress.

In industrial settings lead acid batteries are used in uninteruptable power supply systems (UPS). The batteries are on a maintainer to keep them charged.

So I think the answer to the original question is that some maintainers will not kill the battery but some might.

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formerly known as sanderson
1984 Quad 4
1886 SE 2.8L
1988 4.9L Cadillac
1988 3800 Supercharged

theogre JUN 01, 07:43 PM

quote
Originally posted by sanderson231:
In industrial settings lead acid batteries are used in uninteruptable power supply systems (UPS). The batteries are on a maintainer to keep them charged.

So I think the answer to the original question is that some maintainers will not kill the battery but some might.

Sorry but APC and many others Trickle Charge the UPS Batteries to Death after only 2-3 years. Same problem w/ small Emergency Lights use by business mounted on a wall or elsewhere.

This is Why APC makes a Huge Profit selling New Batteries and been so for Decades. I've installed replacement APC batteries many times.
While You can use 3rd party batteries in UPS at home, Insurance etc stops most Business doing same.

Even many big backup batteries for Business Phones and related have same problems too.
Example: One "Small" PBX system had 24 big 2.1v wet cells. (Total 48V that many phone systems run on.) Bigger then 12v Fiero battery. Useless after a 2-3 years but no-one wanted to touch them. Finally replace the whole PBX then find someplace very near by to take the "weird" batteries so didn't have to pay, a lot.
Other PBX had cells 500lb each or even bigger.
"Sell them..." Lead acid batteries scrap is very low money and just drive a truck to carry them far can still cost you in fuel and time. Worse if have to pass thru a toll both w/ a big truck. Far worse is that very large or many small batteries often need HAZMAT handling and cost to truck them.

Is Why Real Data Centers and others have Diesel and Gas Turbine Generators to get power in seconds when the power is out. Any battery UPS is only run to span that gap.
reinhart JUN 01, 08:35 PM
I used the one that the two posters have pictures of above. What I found is that if one loosens the knob, corrosion quickly forms between the back face surface of the knob and the disconnect bracket. This happens in just a few weeks without rain even. I drove my car and parked it and didn't touch the knob but when I went to start it again a few minutes later, the car was completely dead.

I discovered I would have to sand the back of the knob to get the face uncorroded and making contact again.

The solution is remove the knob completely and just leave in the trunk. You have to open the trunk anyway to tighten the knob so it's really no extra work unless it's dark and you can't see the hole to screw the knob into and have to feel around for it. Since I've been doing that there's been no problems.
sanderson231 JUN 01, 10:11 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Is Why Real Data Centers and others have Diesel and Gas Turbine Generators to get power in seconds when the power is out. Any battery UPS is only run to span that gap.



True but that is why the batteries need to be charged and ready to span that gap. You don't leave the batteries off the charger and hope for the best when they are needed.

------------------
formerly known as sanderson
1984 Quad 4
1886 SE 2.8L
1988 4.9L Cadillac
1988 3800 Supercharged

theogre JUN 02, 01:13 AM

quote
Originally posted by sanderson231:
True but that is why the batteries need to be charged and ready to span that gap. You don't leave the batteries off the charger and hope for the best when they are needed.

No. Simple don't need to Trickle Charge 24/7/365 to have UPS and other battery standby power to run at full charge.

APC and others simple do not want a "Battery Tender Setup" that charger switches off when not needed. In APC case is to Sell more UPS or at least replacement Batteries. For many others is just cost to make whatever and don't care about buyers because most Corporate buyers don't care either and 99+% of other consumers are too dumb to even notice.

In fact some UPS have use this setup and sold the product w/ longer battery life directly targeted APC short battery life.

I once work at one of biggest PC store chains and unlike vast majority actually spoke to APC very high level support...
Basically said Trickle Charging is "best" and laugh at the other company. Best only because to sell more batteries at Huge markup.

As a "work around" many Data Centers and others using APC et al often have "Smart" units and program for self test and recalibration often so batteries get "exercise" enough to "fight" constant Trickle Charging. (Main job of Recal is to resets Run Time for software that shut down equipment.) "Smart" units have Serial, Net and later USB ports to monitor them.

Is "Funny" how APC is so "Green" still makes one of biggest E-waste problems.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 06-02-2023).]

sjmaye JUN 02, 04:57 AM
Allow me to deviate from the original question, slightly.

Whether it be from the maintainer or not, I now have a battery that will not start the car. It is about 2 years old and I think I have started the car 6 times with it. I don't see replacing batteries every 2 years as economically feasible. Is there anything that actually works to revive a battery in this condition? My B&D charger has a battery recondition mode, but since I don't know what it is doing to the battery I have not used it.

BTW- Anyone else having problems connecting Ogre's Cave?

[This message has been edited by sjmaye (edited 06-02-2023).]

sjmaye JUN 02, 07:02 AM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

If you've never taken one apart, this video found online shows how they work (and where potentially bad contacts can arise).




Thank you for the video, Patrick. I never disassembled one of these disconnects. I thought I understood how they worked but was wrong.
sanderson231 JUN 02, 06:47 PM
Just remember anytime the battery is disconnected the ECM goes back to default setting and the learning process for air/fuel ratio trim starts over from scratch.

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formerly known as sanderson
1984 Quad 4
1886 SE 2.8L
1988 4.9L Cadillac
1988 3800 Supercharged

Patrick JUN 02, 06:58 PM

quote
Originally posted by sanderson231:

Just remember anytime the battery is disconnected the ECM goes back to default setting and the learning process for air/fuel ratio trim starts over from scratch.



I've always wondered how long that actually takes. Is it a matter of minutes, hours, or days... or is it a matter of one mile, ten miles, or a hundred miles?
theogre JUN 03, 12:06 AM

quote
Originally posted by sjmaye:
Whether it be from the maintainer or not, I now have a battery that will not start the car. It is about 2 years old and I think I have started the car 6 times with it. I don't see replacing batteries every 2 years as economically feasible. Is there anything that actually works to revive a battery in this condition? My B&D charger has a battery recondition mode, but since I don't know what it is doing to the battery I have not used it.

Again, ECM etc can kill a battery is left connected and park for weeks to months. They will suck power well under 12v almost as bad a leaving small light bulb on. Any time battery is < ~ 11.5 the battery gets damage permanently.

Recon, Desulphit, etc to "save" a dead battery only work for a specific fail mode and basically won't work 90+% of bad batteries.

Example: Lets assume nothing wrong w/ car like F'd Gen1 HL motors.... Discon Battery, Read volts. Is it ~ 10-11 volts? Yes, then very likely a Dead Cell. If you charge w/ 4-10A max and seems to charge but drops to ~ same V w/o the charger then 99+% is a Dead Cell and Recon etc won't work.

YT and other sources have many "tricks" to save a battery too but often won't work and can F'd the alternator too. Even a Dead battery for any reason can pull huge amps from alt's and kill them. Is why CSxxx and some others try to self protect and not turn on but then someone jumps or use booster packs and force CS to turn on.


quote
BTW- Anyone else having problems connecting Ogre's Cave?

see https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/146682.html