WHICH FUEL INJECTORS TO USE WITH A 2.8 TO 3.4 CONVERSION (Page 3/4)
skywurz DEC 06, 12:31 AM

quote
Originally posted by Notorio:


Can you really do that in CA? Won't the smog test equipment know that the engine tune is not stock??



Not on OBD1 cars. They only hook OBD2 cars to the computer.
Notorio DEC 06, 11:24 PM

quote
Originally posted by skywurz:


Not on OBD1 cars. They only hook OBD2 cars to the computer.



OB1 was up to 1996. Hot dog! Retaining the distributor of course, should ET1 Engineer also consider swapping in the ECM 7730 to accrue its several advantages?? Seems like a CA-friendly change since it is invisible and with OB1 they don't plug in.

ET1, here is one of the many 7730 threads if you get interested: 7730 ECM
fierobear DEC 08, 12:37 AM

quote
Originally posted by eti engineer:

Gents,

I am getting conflicting answers as to which fuel injectors I should use in the new 3.4 engine I am installing in place of my 2.8. The 2.8 uses 15 lb./hr. injectors, but I have been told to use the 17 lb./hr. injectors in the 3.4. I was talking with West Coast Fiero today concerning flexplates, and was told that I might want to consider using 15 lb./hr. injectors because of the need to pass smog tests in the psychotic state of CA every two years.

Has anyone had any experience with this? I have ordered the larger injectors, but can change my order. I am not using the old injectors, obviously, so I will be getting new ones no matter what. I just don't want to buy two sets at 403.00 apiece...

Thanks.



I did my 3.4 swap 100 years ago, but if I remember correctly I was recommended Accel 17 lb pintle injectors. The 2.8 injectors weren’t sufficient, and (305?) injectors were once recommended but the car ran like s***. It ran great with the 17lb injectors.

fierobear DEC 08, 09:46 AM

quote
Originally posted by Notorio:


OB1 was up to 1996. Hot dog! Retaining the distributor of course, should ET1 Engineer also consider swapping in the ECM 7730 to accrue its several advantages?? Seems like a CA-friendly change since it is invisible and with OB1 they don't plug in.

ET1, here is one of the many 7730 threads if you get interested: 7730 ECM



Depending on how thorough the smog check is, an aftermarket ECM might fail you for smog if something as simple as the check engine light doesn’t work. There’s also the measurement of what ends up coming out the tail pipe. A stock 3.4 with all the emissions stuff working (EGR system and all sensors) should easily pass smog. An aftermarket ECM, 200hp build and no check engine light will be a crap shoot.
armos DEC 21, 02:36 AM
As others have mentioned, you should expect to retune the ECM. You'll need to adjust the injector "offset" values to match the characteristics of your injectors. If those are set wrong the ECM will get confused trying to figure out the fuel trims and it may suffer the notorious hunting idle problem.
My car is still a 2.8L but I believe the refurb injectors that a shop sent me several years ago came from a 1993-95 3.4L FBody (I didn't confirm with certainty).
To make those injectors work properly the most important thing was to copy the injector offset tables that were in the stock ECM tune for those 3.4L cars. That fixed the idle and I think it was what also fixed a stumble coming off idle.
The files for those cars were posted by somebody on another ECM tuning forum (maybe it was gearhead-efi?).
After that you can start tweaking the BPC value to globally make it richer or leaner.

BTW on a side note, burning chips for the ECM also gives you the ability to tweak timing for an emissions test without it being detectable. They only check the base timing, not the advance added by the ECM.


quote
Originally posted by Notorio:
OB1 was up to 1996. Hot dog! Retaining the distributor of course, should ET1 Engineer also consider swapping in the ECM 7730 to accrue its several advantages?? Seems like a CA-friendly change since it is invisible and with OB1 they don't plug in.


I recently left California, and I still have to pinch myself to realize that I don't have to worry about these nitpicky emissions inspections ever again.

But while I was there, I thought about doing a 7730 swap. If it's done correctly then the Check Engine light should still work so I don't think that's a problem.
The only problem that I see with it is when the inspector checks your ignition timing. They will short the A-B terminals on the ALDL connector to bypass the ECM's timing advance, then go back to check the base timing against the 10BTDC spec.
The 7730 requires a different procedure. On the 7730 you're supposed to unplug a connector, not short the A-B terminals.
So it won't disable the ECM advance as expected when the inspector tries to check the timing, and you'll fail because of the extra advance.
I'm guessing the CARB computer tells them about the A-B procedure so they'll expect it to be like that.
I don't think there's any good way of telling the inspector about the EST wire without getting yourself into trouble for "tampering" with a 35 year old car.

Now you *could* make a test chip that runs 10BTDC at idle even with the EST connected, but that's an 8degree retard vs stock. That should get you past the timing check, but the "check engine" light won't be blinking as it normally does with A-B shorted. I don't know if the inspector would notice or care about that.


My plan was to build an adapter harness so I could easily swap back to the stock 7170 ECM for emissions test day. That's a little insane since the emissions are probably better with the 7730, but it's California.
I never did the project, it's still on the "to-do" list. Now that I'm out I don't need to worry about testing anymore, but I think I'll still build an adapter harness to start with.

[This message has been edited by armos (edited 12-21-2020).]

Mickey_Moose JAN 24, 10:22 PM
I am a bit confused here. When I did my engine swap it was suggested to use a pintle type injector, yet some are saying to use the same unit that is found in the Camaro. At the time I did my swap it was suggested that I could use my stock 88 2.8l injectors. Looks like this information is wrong with the last couple of threads I have been reading.

Is there an advantage of the pintle injector one over the other?

The car seems to run ok, however I do keep getting a Code 32 (EGR) whenever I turn the AC on. This does not happen at any other time - new EGR, no vacuum leaks, etc, etc.

Any event, I am running the 3.4l HT crate engine using the 88 ECM, so would the GM part number: 17090849 injector work ok in my case? I know this is the same style as the Camaro one (not the pintle style).

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 01-24-2021).]

fierofool JAN 25, 03:51 PM
The common problem with the original 3.4 Rochester Multec disk type injectors is that the Fiero ECM can't efficiently operate them. Their pulse width is too long, causing a rich burn condition. I think maybe the 88 ECM has more ability over previous years. I've been told on several occasions that they worked fine when the owner had converted to the 1227730 ECM, however.

lou_dias JAN 26, 12:08 PM
My 88 Formula is using stock Camaro 3.4 injectors and it runs perfect. But to re-iterate - in '88 they switched to different injectors so that's probably why. If you are having injector problems perhaps it's worth reflashing to an 88 bin file or just swapping in the whole 88 ECM? That's probably cheaper then a new set of injectors...
eti engineer JAN 29, 08:14 PM

quote
Originally posted by fierobear:


I did my 3.4 swap 100 years ago, but if I remember correctly I was recommended Accel 17 lb pintle injectors. The 2.8 injectors weren’t sufficient, and (305?) injectors were once recommended but the car ran like s***. It ran great with the 17lb injectors.



I am going to go with the 17 lb Accel injectors, since I have them already in hand. It sounds like this is all a crap shoot anyway. I will pass along anything I find out.
Mickey_Moose APR 07, 09:13 AM
With regards to injector "offset" values - is this referring to the Low Pulse Width Injector Offset vs BPW or something else?