Car is running LEAN! Good fuel pressure (Page 3/4)
Joseph Upson NOV 05, 09:24 AM
I'd go back and undo, or recheck the last change made prior to the onset of the problem. From what I can tell is most significant, you replaced EGR components which can certainly affect performance if they are not working correctly. Despite being new there can still be a leak internally (valve) or externally (mount surfaces). Temperature sensitive performance irregularities are a good reason to be suspicious as metals expand more with more heat. The last fiero EGR are worked had an uneven EGR mount surface. If the O2 sensor was the problem I wouldn't expect ambient temps to have much of an effect as it would still be sending an errant signal.
phonedawgz NOV 05, 11:49 AM
Have you checked the fuel pressure while the lean out condition is happening? This is intermittent. If you happened to check when the problem isn't happening, the problem could be intermittent low fuel pressure.

The computer thinks your engine is running lean and is adding all the fuel it is allowed to. I don't think this is a bad computer input.
You think the engine is running lean.
The plugs show the engine is running lean.

So why is the engine not getting enough fuel?

Low fuel pressure
Plugged injectors
Maybe low voltage on the pink wires of the injectors (while the problem is happening)
Bad ground wire from the ECM to the block?
Joseph Upson NOV 05, 03:29 PM

quote
Originally posted by gmctyphoon1992:
it just got colder in florida for a few days and the car ran alot better but as the outside temperature rose back to 85 degrees the car started to run worse again like it did before. I will also say that when the engine is cold the idle is all over the place and evens out once the car warms up . I am asumming vacuum leaves somewhere I just cannot find it

edit to add: I just drove the car now and it's running peppy and good but It's so intermittent when it doesn't run good though it almost sputters and feels sluggish. the idle was spot on with no variation when I just drove it. I did drive it 2 hours earlier and it was running real sluggish and almost sputtering now it's driving good and I bet when I get back in to drive it later it will drive sluggish again.



I'm not to sure about the interfacing program you're using as it has been well over 12 years since I tried it briefly. Have you considered Tunerpro? You need to log the car while its running bad and have detailed second by second playback of when it is running poorly. I had a bad MAP sensor that wouldn't set a code, probably because it was static at about 59 Kpa and would actually run okay as long as the pedal was not pushed in too far at which point it would fall over. I was at a loss until I looked at the datalog values of the most important sensors and noticed the MAP value never changed.

If you have the ability to burn your own chips and have been doing so, you may need to remove and reinstall the chip as I'm dealing with that issue at the moment. It's causing intermittent idle hunt, and intermittent lean cruise. The reason I know it's my chip is that it also causes my odometer needle to bounce around at idle.
phonedawgz NOV 05, 04:17 PM
TunerPro RT is nicer, is free after a 10 second nag screen and has many more functions.

You can download my install disk that has TunerPro RT on it along with the .adx file for the 2.8 Fieros. The yellow box at the bottom of this page - http://reddevilriver.com/aldl.html

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Odometers don't have needles, but more so, the VSS signal is sent from the VSS to the Speedo/Odometer and then to the ECM. The ECM shouldn't be able to make the speedo needle bounce around.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 11-05-2016).]

Joseph Upson NOV 05, 04:25 PM

quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

TunerPro RT is nicer, is free after a 10 second nag screen and has many more functions.

You can download my install disk that has TunerPro RT on it along with the .adx file for the 2.8 Fieros. The yellow box at the bottom of this page - http://reddevilriver.com/aldl.html

----
Odometers don't have needles, but more so, the VSS signal is sent from the VSS to the Speedo/Odometer and then to the ECM. The ECM shouldn't be able to make the speedo needle bounce around.



That's what I use and yes it is a lot nicer and more versatile but I figured coming from something as old as WinALDL there'd probably be a steep learning curve getting it sorted out and suggested the basic program instead.
phonedawgz NOV 05, 05:09 PM
Actually the "basic program", TunerPro, only functions as a bin editor. TunerPro RT adds the ability to scan along with the bin editor. When you said TunerPro, I just figured you meant the RT version since we are talking about scanning.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 11-05-2016).]

gmctyphoon1992 NOV 07, 10:49 AM

quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

TunerPro RT is nicer, is free after a 10 second nag screen and has many more functions.

You can download my install disk that has TunerPro RT on it along with the .adx file for the 2.8 Fieros. The yellow box at the bottom of this page - http://reddevilriver.com/aldl.html

----
Odometers don't have needles, but more so, the VSS signal is sent from the VSS to the Speedo/Odometer and then to the ECM. The ECM shouldn't be able to make the speedo needle bounce around.




Thank you for the help I am going to get to everything you and Joseph Union are saying one at a time. I am going to however first say that my WinALDL works fine for me but I installed the TunerPro RT from the website and installed and ran the autorun for Red devil rider online CD with the ADX file. I went through your setup for TunerPro RT and everything went smooth except when I tried to interface my current ALDL cable that I have. TunerPro RT is saying Cable not found no matter what COM i set it to including switching USB ports on my laptop and trying it again. The current ALDL cable I have is the one DodgeRunner was selling awhile ago before he stopped selling them in order to no step on anyone's toes. I am wondering if this cable can even interface with the TunerPro RT program? It worked perfectly fine for WinALDL and it interfaced with COM3 set at 2400 baud. Any ideas first and foremost?

Edit to ADD: I installed the cable drivers software and checked in my control panel that I am using the correct COM port which is COM3.

[This message has been edited by gmctyphoon1992 (edited 11-07-2016).]

gmctyphoon1992 NOV 07, 10:56 AM
On another note I unplugged my MAP sensor and started the car and my INT dropped to 115 to 120 at idle although the car did run alot worse. I re-plugged in my map sensor again and I also checked my fuel pressure again and it read 42psi. I than turned the key engine off the fuel pump primed and the car showed 40ish psi fell to 38psi slowly and held there for atleast 10 minutes no bad regulator no leaky injectors. I am assuming I am just going to have to check at the right time when the car is running bad and sluggish.

Low voltage at the injectors is the next thing I can check I am assuming 12v at the pink wire? As far as a ground issue I just had a problem in the past where my bad grounds were blowing ICMS I had them replaced with I think 12 gauge wire on both the battery negative end to the bottom of the tower and the block to the chassis on the right front side of the motor. I will however check the ground from the ECM inside the cabin to the car.

[This message has been edited by gmctyphoon1992 (edited 11-07-2016).]

gmctyphoon1992 NOV 07, 11:32 AM
Just took the car around the block this is the RAW data from the last 13 pulses or 20 seconds of this drive including stopping and backing into my garage

[This message has been edited by gmctyphoon1992 (edited 11-07-2016).]

gmctyphoon1992 NOV 07, 11:42 AM

quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:


I'm not to sure about the interfacing program you're using as it has been well over 12 years since I tried it briefly. Have you considered Tunerpro? You need to log the car while its running bad and have detailed second by second playback of when it is running poorly. I had a bad MAP sensor that wouldn't set a code, probably because it was static at about 59 Kpa and would actually run okay as long as the pedal was not pushed in too far at which point it would fall over. I was at a loss until I looked at the datalog values of the most important sensors and noticed the MAP value never changed.

If you have the ability to burn your own chips and have been doing so, you may need to remove and reinstall the chip as I'm dealing with that issue at the moment. It's causing intermittent idle hunt, and intermittent lean cruise. The reason I know it's my chip is that it also causes my odometer needle to bounce around at idle.



I somewhat watch my map sensor voltage and Kpa as I drove the last few times it would read 1.5 volts at idle would increase voltage up to 4.5 volts as soon as light to heavy throttle would be applied and if cruising the volts would be under 1 volt which I am assuming no vacuum leaks and correct operation unless I am incorrect.

The car seems to run at the right mixure in the short term when im driving my INT is in the 128 range its when I am at idle is when the INT number increase and stay around 150. The BLM however does the opposite it sits at 133 at idle and increases to as much as 140 when driving.

I also notice with the ALDL cable is connected and watching sensor values that when I start the car somewhat cold and let it sit running, before the car starts to use the 02 sensor and change the INT values the car runs rough and the idle is all over the place and after about 30 seconds or so the INT values increase and the car smooths out dramatically and the idle becomes constant.

The car also has hard starts when cold usually 2 turns of the key to get started it kind of slowly rumbles up in RPMs to idle. When the car is warm it usually starts right away.

[This message has been edited by gmctyphoon1992 (edited 11-07-2016).]