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| My 1988 LFX F40 build. (Page 25/68) |
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RandomTask
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DEC 04, 08:03 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Daryl M:
Not sure what you mean by "flipping the intake". It is installed as the factory originally installed it. |
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Daryl,
I'm in the midst of doing the same/similar swap. Already have the F40 out of a Saab 9-3; on the hunt for a complete drop out. Ideally, I'd find an LFX out of a '12+ Camaro or a LGX out of a 15+ Camaro Caddy (ATS, CTS, ETC). Just been a pain finding an engine as Copart stuff has skyrocketed in price (and not worth it) and most recyclers yank all the accessories/electronics off.
As far as flipping the intake, the intake is mounted forward facing; good for those cars, bad for the fiero's. It appears the mounting schema is symettrical for the intake, that is you can simply flip the intake around. Although I don't know if this would be completely do-able as Camaro setups point the throttle body downward. Hopefully this picture helps clear that up:
 [This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 12-04-2019).]
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RandomTask
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DEC 04, 08:05 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by msweldon:
The LF3 did come in a transverse form in the XTS-V but the turbos are a bit on the smaller side for low end torque to lug the XTS around. The turbo's measured on my LF3 shoud fit in our engine bay but like i said, the turbo to intercooler pipes can't. The pipes perhaps could be ovalized or rerouted or a BFH against the rear firewall and the engine shifted aft but I opted to remove them and go with a custom exhaust and mount over the F40 like the LP9 SAAB layout and a more appropriate mid ranged sized turbo. Unfortunately the manifold bolt patterns are different between the LF3/LF4 and the LFX/LGX so the turbo's can't be swapped over.
The LFX's are good motors but they're built internally to be normally aspirated and will fail if pushed too far with forced induction. Do a search for GretchenGotGrowl on the Camaro forums. Granted, he eventually wrung near or at 700lb/ft out of his LFX but had to replace blocks, beef up internals, HPFP, etc.. That's where the LF3/LF4 come into play... they already have the built in fueling internals to handle forced induction included. Per Renik performance out of California their weak points, if upping the boost, are needing a bigger HPFP or larger HPFP cam on the cam, upgraded LPFP, the titanium rods on the LF4 can shatter under detonation, and the main and CR bearings are a little soft for OEM embedibility / reliability.
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Thanks so much for this!
Clutch - Yeah, I found in this thread that a stock Saab clutch would work. My *thought* process is to use a SPEC FW w/ a Stage 3 Spec clutch. Thanks so much for the axle info!
Have you heard of anyone running an ECU from a manual Camaro having any of these stumbling issues? (unsure of the identification of the ECU's).
My biggest thing with the LF4 is the cost. For $7k for a setup, might as well as go LS at that point.[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 12-04-2019).]
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msweldon
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DEC 04, 11:32 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
Thanks so much for this!
Clutch - Yeah, I found in this thread that a stock Saab clutch would work. My *thought* process is to use a SPEC FW w/ a Stage 3 Spec clutch. Thanks so much for the axle info!
Have you heard of anyone running an ECU from a manual Camaro having any of these stumbling issues? (unsure of the identification of the ECU's).
My biggest thing with the LF4 is the cost. For $7k for a setup, might as well as go LS at that point.
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Not to hijack Danyl's thread...
I have the SPEC Alum flywheel and Stage 3+ setup waiting to go in for my LF3/LF4.... It goes in as soon as I finish F40 3.09FD swap...
The stumbling issues I referenced were due to not enough teeth/resolution on an external reluctor wheel feeding the E36/E92 ECM. I've fitted an LF4 ATS-V 6speed harness and ECU to my LF3 as they are 99% the same physically but the XTSV 's BCM controls the FPCM while the ATSV has a FPCM controlled by the ECM....having said that I have no point of reference to the Camaro manual LFX ECU. I would advise getting ahold of the Mitchell, or equivalent, wiring diagrams as the FSM wiring diagrams for the XTS and ATS were barely usable and far too broken up, and seeing if the manual has a separate FPCM. Since the ATS and he Camaro share a great deal in layout I would say they probably would have similar wiring layouts as well with the ATS being more complex due to the myriad of options and features Cadillac installs.[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 12-04-2019).]
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Daryl M
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DEC 06, 04:00 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
Thanks so much for this!
Clutch - Yeah, I found in this thread that a stock Saab clutch would work. My *thought* process is to use a SPEC FW w/ a Stage 3 Spec clutch. Thanks so much for the axle info!
Have you heard of anyone running an ECU from a manual Camaro having any of these stumbling issues? (unsure of the identification of the ECU's).
My biggest thing with the LF4 is the cost. For $7k for a setup, might as well as go LS at that point.
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My LFX came from a 2013 Impala. The F40 came from a 2006 Saab 9-3. I had Ryan from Sinister (aka Darth Fireo on this forum) reprogram the Impala ECU for my application. My project has not progressed to the point where I know if it all works yet, but I am confident all will work as planned.
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msweldon
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JAN 04, 12:29 AM
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Daryl,
Have you given any thought yet as to how you're going to handle your coolant routing? The HFV6 family of V6's have the coolant exit out of the engine on the passenger side or front of the block and inter the block just above the transmission to block mating point. This is exactly the opposite from the fiero layout. Are you planning on crossing over the coolant pipes in the bay, in the front prior to radiator, or install an aftermarket radiator with the inlet and outlets reversed.
Also, building my motor and transmission mounts for my "LF3.5"  I noticed that your axles aren't exactly inline with the lateral and toe links as it looks like the F40 diff/output shafts are angled slightly forward indicating that your engine is shifted rearward a bit. Was this due to firewall clearance with all your accessories mounted toward the firewall or oil pan bosses interfering with the cradle?
Probably moot at this point and may be the 11th hour for you but you can relocate the alternator to the far side of the engine by utilizing the Camaro LFX alternator bracket which could give you some more room...
M[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 01-08-2020).]
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RandomTask
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JAN 09, 12:19 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by msweldon:
Daryl,
Have you given any thought yet as to how you're going to handle your coolant routing? The HFV6 family of V6's have the coolant exit out of the engine on the passenger side or front of the block and inter the block just above the transmission to block mating point. This is exactly the opposite from the fiero layout. Are you planning on crossing over the coolant pipes in the bay, in the front prior to radiator, or install an aftermarket radiator with the inlet and outlets reversed.
Also, building my motor and transmission mounts for my "LF3.5" I noticed that your axles aren't exactly inline with the lateral and toe links as it looks like the F40 diff/output shafts are angled slightly forward indicating that your engine is shifted rearward a bit. Was this due to firewall clearance with all your accessories mounted toward the firewall or oil pan bosses interfering with the cradle?
Probably moot at this point and may be the 11th hour for you but you can relocate the alternator to the far side of the engine by utilizing the Camaro LFX alternator bracket which could give you some more room...
M
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To your last point, I'm navigating that predicament right now. I'm looking to pick up the Impala alternator due to the belt routing, haha. My LFX is from a 2014 Camaro and Daryls alternator is where my power steering pump used to be.
Keep up the good work!
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msweldon
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JAN 09, 01:55 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
To your last point, I'm navigating that predicament right now. I'm looking to pick up the Impala alternator due to the belt routing, haha. My LFX is from a 2014 Camaro and Daryls alternator is where my power steering pump used to be.
Keep up the good work! |
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Why are you looking to put the alternator against the firewall instead of keeping it in the stock camaro lfx location which would be the same as the 2.8 fiero? You can put an idler pulley where the impala alternator is mounted and free up quite a bit firewall, decklid hingebox clearance.
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Daryl M
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JAN 09, 09:10 AM
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Msweldon & RandomTask, I really haven't worked out the coolant routing yet. As for the engine mounting and related issues, I blocked the engine/transmission in place and moved it around until I liked the position. With the power steering pump removed and a shorter belt in place, it all just seemed to fall into place. I'm not familiar with the Camaro LFX. I went with the Impala motor because it seemed there would be fewer issues using a transverse engine. Hope you guys continue to chime in. The feedback and suggestions are appreciated.
Daryl
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RandomTask
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JAN 09, 09:35 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by msweldon:
Why are you looking to put the alternator against the firewall instead of keeping it in the stock camaro lfx location which would be the same as the 2.8 fiero? You can put an idler pulley where the impala alternator is mounted and free up quite a bit firewall, decklid hingebox clearance. |
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To me, it's simply easier to buy a $120 alternator to mimic the impala routing rather than fabricating a pulley setup that can fix it. (Don't make crappier versions of things you can easily buy). It also looks like I'll have enough room there. I hope GM quality has increased since the 80's and I won't have to change the alternator all that often. The only way to not run an idler pulley where the PS pump was is to switch to a cadillac ATS style setup which would require getting all new accessories + crank pulley etc.
Found this pic online which is basically what I want to run:
BTW, did you get my PM?
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Will
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JAN 09, 09:40 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
To me, it's simply easier to buy a $120 alternator to mimic the impala routing rather than fabricating a pulley setup that can fix it. (Don't make crappier versions of things you can easily buy). It also looks like I'll have enough room there. I hope GM quality has increased since the 80's and I won't have to change the alternator all that often. The only way to not run an idler pulley where the PS pump was is to switch to a cadillac ATS style setup which would require getting all new accessories + crank pulley etc.
Found this pic online which is basically what I want to run:
BTW, did you get my PM? |
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That setup is basically ideal for the Fiero, and is pretty much exactly what my Northstar runs.
Applications that have electric power steering ditch the PS pump and simplify the accessory belt drive significantly.
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