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| Maximum helpful front camber for racing? (Page 2/5) |
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La fiera
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FEB 16, 12:22 PM
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Increasing the amount of negative camber will make the car plow even more because the contact patch is not in the center of the tire. I personally set up my car to plow off throttle but once I hit the gas pedal the front bites like it is on rails. The reason I do so is to drive thru the corners on the gas. Fieros are light at the front and set up from factory to plow to induce a frontal collision. Since you are auto crossing I'd take the front sway bar off to alleviate the plow issue and stiffen the rear even more. Also, the massive wide front tires are not helping you either but by taking the front sway bar off you are allowing the tire in the opposite direction of the turn to have more weight. Also raise the front or lower the rear, increase the tire pressures at the rear and lower the front pressures at the front. Basically, the more oversteer you can induce the less understeer you'lll have.
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olejoedad
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FEB 16, 12:38 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Additivewalnut:
Wasn't that the point of the rear bar? |
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A bar on the front tightens the rear, a bar on the rear tightens the front.
The Fiero store bars work well together.
A stock bar on the front and a stiff bar on the rear will cause understeer.
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La fiera
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FEB 16, 01:24 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by olejoedad:
A bar on the front tightens the rear, a bar on the rear tightens the front.
The Fiero store bars work well together.
A stock bar on the front and a stiff bar on the rear will cause understeer.
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What's the thickness of TFS bar compared to the stock front? I found it on their website; 1" inch front and 7/8" rear. Yes, that's a guaranteed understeer set up. If they can be reversed it'll induce more oversteer.[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 02-16-2025).]
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olejoedad
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FEB 16, 02:05 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by La fiera:
What's the thickness of TFS bar compared to the stock front? I found it on their website; 1" inch front and 7/8" rear. Yes, that's a guaranteed understeer set up. If they can be reversed it'll induce more oversteer.
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They are not interchangeable front to rear, or rear to front.
The O/P needs to put TFS front bar on the front and it will be very neutral.
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Brian A
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FEB 16, 02:08 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by olejoedad:
A bar on the front tightens the rear, a bar on the rear tightens the front.
The Fiero store bars work well together.
A stock bar on the front and a stiff bar on the rear will cause understeer.
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I can’t quite follow your terminology. Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is as follows …
The goal is to balance grip on the wheels on the outside of the turn. The wheels on the inside of the turn provide minimal grip; even Formula 1 cars pretty much lift their inside wheels while cornering. Short of lowering the car’s center of gravity, the amount of weight shift from inside to outside is uncontrollable.
For understeer, the idea is to increase the load on the rear outside tire relative to the front outside tire so that the rear tire reaches it’s limit of friction before the front. The front wheel continues to grip as the rear slides a little bit.
The way this is done is by either increasing the spring rate on the rear wheel or by reducing the width of the rear tire (autocrossers can do this by overinflating the rear to reduce the effective width). The front tire remains at its maximum grip while the rear tire gets overloaded.
You can’t increase overall grip; that is dictated by choice of tires. All you can do is balance the grip between front and rear axles to get the handling balance you want. Most people prefer having a bit of understeer.
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Additivewalnut
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FEB 16, 03:00 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by La fiera:
Increasing the amount of negative camber will make the car plow even more because the contact patch is not in the center of the tire. I personally set up my car to plow off throttle but once I hit the gas pedal the front bites like it is on rails. The reason I do so is to drive thru the corners on the gas. Fieros are light at the front and set up from factory to plow to induce a frontal collision. Since you are auto crossing I'd take the front sway bar off to alleviate the plow issue and stiffen the rear even more. Also, the massive wide front tires are not helping you either but by taking the front sway bar off you are allowing the tire in the opposite direction of the turn to have more weight. Also raise the front or lower the rear, increase the tire pressures at the rear and lower the front pressures at the front. Basically, the more oversteer you can induce the less understeer you'lll have. |
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Except when you turn the top of tire goes positive camber. If you put in negative, when you turn in, the tire becomes perpendicular to the road.
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Additivewalnut
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FEB 16, 03:02 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by olejoedad:
They are not interchangeable front to rear, or rear to front.
The O/P needs to put TFS front bar on the front and it will be very neutral. |
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I figured if I put a thick bar on the rear and then balanced it with a thick bar up front, it would just make it under steer like it did before the rear bar was put on
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olejoedad
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FEB 16, 03:02 PM
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O/P, put a Fiero Store front bar on your car before trying anything else. You're trying to fix a problem you created by mismatched sway bars.
Or, take the Fiero store rear bar off of your car and put a stock front bar on the rear - it's not an ideal fix, but it would save you some dollars and improve the handling.
Your problem is mismatched roll rates due to the mismatched bars.[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 02-16-2025).]
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Additivewalnut
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FEB 16, 03:06 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by olejoedad:
O/P, put a Fiero Store front bar on your car before trying anything else. You're trying to fix a problem you created by mismatched sway bars.
Or, take the Fiero store rear bar off of your car and but a stock front bar on the rear - it's not an ideal fix, but it would save you some dollars and improve the handling.
Your problem is mismatched roll rates due to the mismatched bars.
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I'll get one in order. I wouldn't say there's a problem though. It's way better than it was before putting the rear bar on, I'm just trying to get rid of that last annoying bit of understeer
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Patrick
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FEB 16, 03:30 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by olejoedad:
A bar on the front tightens the rear, a bar on the rear tightens the front.
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Agreed.
| quote | Originally posted by olejoedad:
A stock bar on the front and a stiff bar on the rear will cause understeer.
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Now you've lost me.  Is that a typo?
With no sway bar on the rear of a Fiero, there is understeer. Right? Adding a rear sway bar improves grip in the front, lessening and/or eliminating understeer. Right? But if the rear sway bar is too stiff, wouldn't that introduce oversteer?
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