I think I found the front end highway wander issue with my 88GT, help! (Page 2/3) phils88GT SEP 20, 01:45 PM I forgot to mention, and this may be a big one, that when I had it aligned a while back, they said it aligned, bit it had a bend inner tie rod, cannot remember which side though, likely the one that had the bent balljoint shaft. I am going to pull that inner tie rod off this weekend and see just how bad. Anything it bad, this much I know, but I need to see it for myself. I also ordered a set of poly bushings for the front control arms from TFS. I am sure mine are original, and I just don't trust them at all. While out, I am going to visually inspect everything on the front and rear (make sure everything is tight). Yellow-88 SEP 20, 03:32 PM quote Originally posted by phils88GT: I forgot to mention, and this may be a big one, that when I had it aligned a while back, they said it aligned, bit it had a bend inner tie rod, cannot remember which side though, likely the one that had the bent balljoint shaft. I am going to pull that inner tie rod off this weekend and see just how bad. Anything it bad, this much I know, but I need to see it for myself. I also ordered a set of poly bushings for the front control arms from TFS. I am sure mine are original, and I just don't trust them at all. While out, I am going to visually inspect everything on the front and rear (make sure everything is tight). The 88 chassis, right out of the box is an excellent design. Built to factory specs it will pleasantly surprise even experienced professional drivers with it's predictability and ease of interface with its driver. I suggest that you rebuilt it with new factory bushings and set it to factory alignment specs. The work required to install poly bushings and the resulting change in alignment specs plus the need to redo alignment as they settle in and they constantly sqeeek .... poly is simple not worth it. Also be aware that the rear end is as critical as the front in affecting stability. Tire diameter, wheel offset are also a part of the chassis design. Once you see what a factory proper 88 Fiero feels like, you will understand why it's the perfect starting point for a very serious sports car. Yellow started as a 88 Base Coupe. 1985 Fiero GT SEP 20, 04:22 PM I have found that the squeak of poly bushings can be avoided with simple Teflon tape (air hose stuff). Wrap the metal inner core in a single non-overlapping layer, apply the included grease to the inside of the bushing, then twist the metal core into the bushing to keep the Teflon tape from bunching up. My dad's Fiero has only the front lower control arms poly, without this, and it is so bad haha, mine has had poly everything for 17 months (front) and 12 months (rear) with no consistent squeaks, and only 1 front bushing that occasionally squeaks (in the cold/when it's raining, or when it's been sitting for awhile), quiet enough that it isn't bothersome. olejoedad SEP 20, 05:15 PM quote Originally posted by cartercarbaficionado: see the important thing is that it's an 88. the 88 suspension specifically has twice the bumpsteer than the earlier models due to the elimination of the steering damper and the changes in geometry also do not help at all. the solution to the bump steer issue is to align the car differently and be very very conscious about what is and is not happening. my formula has huge bump steer issues and fishtailing at high speeds due to the front suspension behaving the same way when loaded and unloaded rapidly. I recommend he checks his shock absorbers and he should absolutely replace his sway bar bushings and wheel bearings and do the bushings if he has not already. every 88 needs these checked Then there is something seriously wrong with your car. I've put over 250,000 miles on Fieros since I bought my first one, an 85 GT. My second one, an 86 SE with full aftermarket suspension and brake upgrades was an absolute beast on a twisty road or an autocross. My current car, an 88 Formula with a 4.9 Caddy engine and a 4T60E transmission handles better than the 86 and is very comfortable on any type of road surface. The redesigned suspension front and rear erase any trace of bumpsteer and steering kickback. Yellow-88 SEP 20, 06:35 PM quote Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT: I have found that the squeak of poly bushings can be avoided with simple Teflon tape (air hose stuff). Wrap the metal inner core in a single non-overlapping layer, apply the included grease to the inside of the bushing, then twist the metal core into the bushing to keep the Teflon tape from bunching up. My dad's Fiero has only the front lower control arms poly, without this, and it is so bad haha, mine has had poly everything for 17 months (front) and 12 months (rear) with no consistent squeaks, and only 1 front bushing that occasionally squeaks (in the cold/when it's raining, or when it's been sitting for awhile), quiet enough that it isn't bothersome. It's not just the squeak. There are other issues with them. The metal inner core is a small diameter compared to that of thy poly. The result is a concentrated load resulting in distortion of the thermoset "poly" material. The small metal tube is also attempting to rotate adding heat and friction. Yes, Teflon is a good lubricate. Poly bushings are not set and forget. They continue to distort until they take a final "set". Once they do, they do have higher "stiffness" than rubber bushings and so require much higher tolerance in alignment. Also factory setting may feel way too sensitive for some. If you choose the poly bandwagon, you need to do your own alignment. And they are wicked job to do. Factory bushings are plug and play. Because they operate by twisting solid rubber, they get stiffer as the arms move. Think off variable rate torsion bars. That's why they need to be at rest when the control arms are at normal ride height. They work correctly with factory specs so any shop can do it and not worry about the customer telling him what setting he wants. Factory new bushings are set and forget for a few years. Correctly done upgrades are a separate subject. cartercarbaficionado SEP 20, 09:01 PM quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Then there is something seriously wrong with your car. I've put over 250,000 miles on Fieros since I bought my first one, an 85 GT. My second one, an 86 SE with full aftermarket suspension and brake upgrades was an absolute beast on a twisty road or an autocross. My current car, an 88 Formula with a 4.9 Caddy engine and a 4T60E transmission handles better than the 86 and is very comfortable on any type of road surface. The redesigned suspension front and rear erase any trace of bumpsteer and steering kickback. well yeah of course there's something wrong. it's called it needs shocks but it's not my car anymore and everytime I'm fixing it for them and say it needs something I get told it doesn't. plus the rear bolt through the bushings is loose since Firestone went "oh this is how you align the rear right?" I'm actually not touching that car right now since I'm so annoyed at the owner Yellow-88 SEP 21, 10:23 AM quote Originally posted by cartercarbaficionado: well yeah of course there's something wrong. it's called it needs shocks but it's not my car anymore and everytime I'm fixing it for them and say it needs something I get told it doesn't. plus the rear bolt through the bushings is loose since Firestone went "oh this is how you align the rear right?" I'm actually not touching that car right now since I'm so annoyed at the owner So .... a Firestone service guy loosened the "bolt through the bushings" and gave it back to you? Are you serious? olejoedad SEP 21, 11:16 AM quote Originally posted by cartercarbaficionado: (snip) the 88 suspension specifically has twice the bumpsteer than the earlier models due to the elimination of the steering damper and the changes in geometry also do not help at all. the solution to the bump steer issue is to align the car differently and be very very conscious about what is and is not happening. my formula has huge bump steer issues and fishtailing at high speeds due to the front suspension behaving the same way when loaded and unloaded rapidly. (snip) I hope you realize that everything in the quote above is erroneous. Bumpsteer in earlier fieros is caused by the toe change in the rear A arm/toe link design. The front suspension issue in the earlier front suspension had horrible scrub radius issues. Both of these issues were eliminated with the 88 suspension, which was actually the suspension originally designed for the car from the get-go. Yellow-88 SEP 21, 12:57 PM quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Both of these issues were eliminated with the 88 suspension, which was actually the suspension originally designed for the car from the get-go. That sounds like Detroit. Spend money on good design, think it cost too much so, spend more design money on a cheaper design, build it, find out it sucks so go back to the original design. Actually, that sounds like basic corporate bean counter mentality. Anyway, the 88 Fiero chassis is excellent design. It's sad that so many got "lost". olejoedad SEP 21, 02:42 PM The suspension and brakes had been designed, but the tooling cost wasn't budgeted. So, let's use a Chevette front and a Citation front! We can do it cheaper!