Engine Identification (Page 2/4)
jelly2m8 MAY 02, 02:36 AM
Probably a 2.8, looks like was rebuilt at one point seeing it had brass frost plugs. whether it is any good or not is anyone's guess, why was it removed. If one could get it for a couple hundred bucks, cause that's all it's worth, those manifolds a fella could make some money on, looks like The Fiero Stores Sprint manifolds ( think that's what they are called ) are no longer available.

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 05-02-2024).]

82-T/A [At Work] MAY 02, 09:06 AM

quote
Originally posted by cartercarbaficionado:

that just looks like the stock formula holley throttle body. at least on mine it's bolted just like that and it was that way from the factory allegedly




Yeah, it is a "stock Holley throttle body," but there were a number of people who were providing performance services on the stock throttle body. Darrel Morse was one guy, and there were a few other order by mail places. Basically, they took the stock throttle body (and intake plenum), and bored the entire thing on a press which would enlarge the bore to something like 57mm. They then fitted a larger plate, and replaced the throttle plate screws. You'll note that they're super shiny... which means they aren't original and the throttle plate has been removed. This is what gives it away for me.

I'd be curious what else was done to that motor that might be worth some money... the heads are painted separately from the engine... which means they were obviously separated from the motor at one time and painted separately. The freeze plugs that are visible where the flywheel would be are also brand new. If they were even 5-6 years old, they'd be discolored and washed out at this point. The cam plate has also been painted, which at the very least (along with new freeze plugs), likely means this engine has been rebuilt. No one would rebuild a Fiero engine to totally factory specs (just wouldn't make a lot of sense).

We know it's at least from an 87 because of the engraved intake manifold, but as I mentioned before, the shorty headers (as Jelly just above said) which were the ones made by Sprint and sold by the Fiero Store are worth some signfiicant coin.

I'd want to know what the 820 casting number means. I don't have a Fiero 2.8 V6/60 to determine whether or not that was on all Fiero V6s. But that could help identify (at least from pictures) if it's a 2.8, a 3.1, or a 3.4.

I'm thinking $1,500... assuming it was totally rebuilt (which it seems), you're likely paying "what it's worth." I'd want a bit more of a deal on that though, and I'd only get it if I was looking to stay stock. I'd be much happier at $1,000 bucks. The only thing is, you don't know the condition of the rebuild. It's possible the cam wasn't broken in properly and a cam lobe wiped out...

just some rando thoughts there...
N1022AR MAY 02, 09:43 AM
I mostly am not interested because of that lack of history that it has and the fact that the communication with the seller has been less than stellar. If I'm going to do a swap I'm hoping for at the very least a 3.4. I want more power than a 3.4 offers but it does seem to be the most painless option.
Is there a company that will modify a 3.4 or even a 3800 to be drop in ready? I am aware that a 3800 will require some mounting modifications. Any advice on this is appreciated. I have enough of a mechanical mind that I was able to change all gaskets (except for heads) and sensors and sparkplugs on my 2.8 without too much trouble. Including doing the lash adjustment. Which I had to do twice because I forgot to tighten the Set screw for the rocker arm on cylinder 4...........
82-T/A [At Work] MAY 02, 10:21 AM

quote
Originally posted by N1022AR:

I mostly am not interested because of that lack of history that it has and the fact that the communication with the seller has been less than stellar. If I'm going to do a swap I'm hoping for at the very least a 3.4. I want more power than a 3.4 offers but it does seem to be the most painless option.
Is there a company that will modify a 3.4 or even a 3800 to be drop in ready? I am aware that a 3800 will require some mounting modifications. Any advice on this is appreciated. I have enough of a mechanical mind that I was able to change all gaskets (except for heads) and sensors and sparkplugs on my 2.8 without too much trouble. Including doing the lash adjustment. Which I had to do twice because I forgot to tighten the Set screw for the rocker arm on cylinder 4...........




Hey N1022AR, I'm a little less of an hour south of you... so if at some point you decide you need to do this. My daughter and I can lend a hand. She's currently doing an engine rebuild and dropped the cradle on her car too.

Shameless plug...




Anyway... about the 3.4 vs other engines. Assuming you ALREADY have a V6 Fiero (which I think you said you do), the 3.4 is about the easiest performance upgrade you can possibly get when it comes to engine swaps. Literally everything swaps over. There are only three modifications that need to have happened:

1 - Starter needs to be relocated, which means tapping 1 existing hole, and drilling/tapping a second hole. There is a jig available for $100 bucks from http://www.RodneyDickman.com to do this. You can easily handle this in your garage, or a machine shop can do it for super cheap.

2 - You need to get larger injectors (likey 17lb injectors to upgrade from your 15lb injectors).

3 - There is an adaptor fitting for the oil pressure sending unit (also available for like $10 bucks from Rodney Dickman).


... everything else just bolts up. If you have a manual transmission, and you have an 85-87, you'll need to get a neutrally balanced flywheel. If you have an 88, your existing flywheel will work. But all the brackets, your transmission, like... literally everything just bolts up.


If you do absolutely nothing at all to the 3.4 except drop it in... you can expect ~25hp increase in a Fiero. Stock for stock, there's a 20hp difference, but the Fiero has a shorter exhaust, and better intake, which provides a bit more horsepower.

You CAN get to 200hp if you do the following (based on similar posts on here)
- Port matching the intake components
- Boring the throttle body
- DAWG mod to the intake plenum
- Hogging out the exhaust manifolds
- Swapping out the camshaft to one that's more performance oriented

There's a ton of other parts too that will also improve power... roller rockers (higher or stock ratio), Stainless Steel SI performance valves, cyl head porting, headers, etc.


The benefit to all of this of course is that the car looks totally stock, but will have anywhere from 25-60 more horsepower (depending on what you do with it). It'll have similar Fiero characteristics and sound.


With any other engine swap... there's a lot more you'll need to change out. Basically, you'll want to get the entire engine (with all accessories) as well as the ECM and wiring harness. There's going to be a lot of wiring and custom parts (that are usually available, or that you'll have a machine shop make).

The two main reasons why you'd want to go with the 3.4 V6/60 is:
- You re-use 99% of everything that's currently bolted to your 2.8
- Looks totally stock, but still provides upwards of 200 horsepower.


A rebuilt 3.4 from Autozone will cost you around ~$2,300. Again... you could get an LS1 on eBay for $1,500 ready to go... but then you're going to be spending many more thousands, and lots of labor getting it to work in the car. All of which is possible... you just need to decide what your appetite is for this kind of work and cost.
N1022AR MAY 02, 11:33 AM
82-T/A....Thanks for your input! PM sent.
fierofool MAY 02, 09:28 PM
You can get a 3.1 bored to 3.4 and have the starter boss already factory drilled. There is a danger of breaking one of the starter mounts on a converted 3.4. I've done it twice because I tightened the outboard bolt too much. That part of the starter mount isn't flush against the block. The Lumina APV van 3.1 has thicker cylinder walls and can be bored up to .060 over. That's what I have in my 86. It has all the features of the 3.4 with knock sensor and crankshaft sensor port if you want to go distributorless 1227730 ECM.

These folks might be able to set you up with a drop in if you don't have heads. https://engine-parts.com/online-store/
82-T/A [At Work] MAY 03, 01:57 PM

quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

You can get a 3.1 bored to 3.4 and have the starter boss already factory drilled. There is a danger of breaking one of the starter mounts on a converted 3.4. I've done it twice because I tightened the outboard bolt too much. That part of the starter mount isn't flush against the block. The Lumina APV van 3.1 has thicker cylinder walls and can be bored up to .060 over. That's what I have in my 86. It has all the features of the 3.4 with knock sensor and crankshaft sensor port if you want to go distributorless 1227730 ECM.

These folks might be able to set you up with a drop in if you don't have heads. https://engine-parts.com/online-store/




FieroFool... have you thought about welding in a stud in place? That would help alleviate some of the stress.

One thing I'd also mention, use the newer / smaller starter. They are significantly stronger, more reliable, and much smaller... they're like HALF the weight also. I think they were used in the late 1990s and up Pontiac Grand Prixs, Grand Ams, etc... completely replaces the old 18 pound starter from the 70s that our Fiero came with. I think the new one is like 7 pounds or something ridiculously light. Quicker too...
fierofool MAY 03, 06:44 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
FieroFool... have you thought about welding in a stud in place? That would help alleviate some of the stress.

One thing I'd also mention, use the newer / smaller starter. They are significantly stronger, more reliable, and much smaller... they're like HALF the weight also. I think they were used in the late 1990s and up Pontiac Grand Prixs, Grand Ams, etc... completely replaces the old 18 pound starter from the 70s that our Fiero came with. I think the new one is like 7 pounds or something ridiculously light. Quicker too...




I'm using the newer lightweight starter on the 86 3.1 but I still have a stock Fiero starter on the 87 3.4. I did think about approaching Rodney Dickman about making a wedge to weld onto the 3.4 block to compliment his starter drill jig, but then he began to indicate he was going to sell or close the business, so I didn't bother.

cartercarbaficionado MAY 03, 06:59 PM

quote
Originally posted by fierofool:
I'm using the newer lightweight starter on the 86 3.1 but I still have a stock Fiero starter on the 87 3.4. I did think about approaching Rodney Dickman about making a wedge to weld onto the 3.4 block to compliment his starter drill jig, but then he began to indicate he was going to sell or close the business, so I didn't bother.


maybe I'll get bored one of these days and make an stl of the required bits so people can 3d print the jig and have the wedge cnc'ed, just having measurements in an area would be awesome honestly for everyone here
82-T/A [At Work] MAY 03, 10:07 PM

quote
Originally posted by fierofool:
I'm using the newer lightweight starter on the 86 3.1 but I still have a stock Fiero starter on the 87 3.4. I did think about approaching Rodney Dickman about making a wedge to weld onto the 3.4 block to compliment his starter drill jig, but then he began to indicate he was going to sell or close the business, so I didn't bother.




If you don't mind me asking... how do you like the lightweight starter compared to the old school one?

I know the sound is different of course, and obviously some weight savings... but is there a perceivable difference in how the engine responds to it? Does it crank faster / start faster?
Thanks!