if you are swapping the brake booster you should buy this first (Page 2/3)
richard in nc MAR 19, 04:35 PM
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[This message has been edited by richard in nc (edited 03-22-2024).]

pmbrunelle MAR 19, 10:39 PM
I agree that modern cars are often overboosted, making it difficult to control the braking as minor fluctuations in the movement of your foot cause large changes in braking. It is unpleasant to drive cars like this. When ABS/nannies are present to take over, fine brake control is less important.

Unless you have ogre lower body strength, I disagree that a stock Fiero stops with toe effort. I have to press the brake pedal with the arch/ball of my foot to comfortably generate the required pedal force to threshold brake the car; I like it this way. Human body strength of course varies a lot between people.

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What is the useful aspect (with regards to this job) of the tool in the initial post?

Is it the racheting aspect, or is it how the closed racheting end has a hinge?
1985 Fiero GT MAR 19, 10:57 PM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

I agree that modern cars are often overboosted, making it difficult to control the braking as minor fluctuations in the movement of your foot cause large changes in braking. It is unpleasant to drive cars like this. When ABS/nannies are present to take over, fine brake control is less important.

Unless you have ogre lower body strength, I disagree that a stock Fiero stops with toe effort. I have to press the brake pedal with the arch/ball of my foot to comfortably generate the required pedal force to threshold brake the car; I like it this way. Human body strength of course varies a lot between people.



Yeah definitely the ball of your foot, toes only would be interesting, but I've never ever used the arch of my foot, just the ball and toes, the gas pedal is made to just stick your whole foot on, but the brake and clutch are small squarish shapes for a reason, to engage with the front of your foot, the ball providing the force, the toes the finesse.
theogre MAR 20, 08:10 AM

quote
Originally posted by richard in nc:
i already replaced all four rotors and pads and two callipers.stainless steel brakes on the car when i got it.and THIS 'fixed' my brakes.plus if the booster IS bad why not replace it with a better one.

You foolish put SS hoses on your brakes believing the Hype that their "Better..." Even if you buy "DOT" SS hoses, Those lines already Void DOT 106 & Warranty as soon as your added support in the middle. See http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/129208.html rubber brake lines vs stainless steel

"Big Booster Upgrade" is Not Better.
theogre MAR 20, 08:43 AM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:
Unless you have ogre lower body strength, I disagree that a stock Fiero stops with toe effort. I have to press the brake pedal with the arch/ball of my foot to comfortably generate the required pedal force to threshold brake the car; I like it this way. Human body strength of course varies a lot between people.

Fact: Most Brake & Clutch pedals for Cars & Light Trunks are design to Prevent "Strong People" Mashing the pedals.

Ergonomics of them basically Cancels legs force & mainly the ankle force gets to the pedal. Worse, on many vehicles often when you try to put the arch of you foot on them, the toe of shoes often hit or snag the wiring & other hardware above the pedal that can cause other problems or a wreck. Even Worse for people that need Boots (Steel toe or not) for work because how made w/ "cliff edge" soles having more snag points. You don't need big feet to have this problem as many Work boots add 1" or more total length.

Only some Heavy Trucks like older Semis, Dump Truck, even School Busses have different pedal design allowing your whole to fit on the Brake &/or Clutch pedals.
theogre MAR 20, 09:01 AM
As to the Tool above...
I have several in different sizes & brands. Example: 10mm to get to 1 nut holding lifter cover for Duke w/o removing the alt.

Can Help but often easy to bend the "hinge" when can't reach trying to put the wrench on head/nut. Many maybe "adjustable" hinge by tightening a bolt there, even they may need the hinge wrap w/ electrical tape or heat shrink to limit moving.

If you go to flea markets etc... Often can find single ratchet heads there w/ or w/o the hinge very cheap even for know brands.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 03-20-2024).]

82-T/A [At Work] MAR 20, 12:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Is most a "fix"/"upgrade" that hinds other brake issue or hinds the old booster is "dead" causing high pedal effort etc but people "sell" this & more crap like many Spark Plugs that "boost" power etc from your engine. Worse when fools/suckers also buy into the "GA Brake Upgrade" either putting parts on or buying TFS "Brake Upgrade Kit" then told to "upgrade" the booster too.




I have to disagree with this. I bought the Grand Am Upgrade kit. Let me explain...

When I was 18-21... basically the last several years when I drove my Fiero daily, and when I was also more juvenile, and drove it that way... I had CONSTANT... I mean CONSTANT brake fade. It was horrible. Now, let me be really honest... I drove horrible. I'd floor it at every light, slam on my brakes for every light I basically missed, and it was not uncommon for me to be doing 120 miles an hour on the highway late at night in South Florida (back when no one lived here). That was at least 20+ years ago... and I'm far far less immature now than I was then (I drive like a dad with kids).

Regardless... my 1987 Fiero SE / V6 automatic suffered massive brake fade all the time. So did my 1985 Fiero GT, and also my 1986 Fiero SE V6 automatic. I didn't ride the brakes, for sure. But I used them hard because I drove like a maniac. And I probably had to replace my rotors at least 2 times (not counting the most recent and final time) in that 3-4 year period.

There were times where the brake fade was so bad, that I was desperately pushing as hard as I could on the brakes, while getting leverage against the rear of the car, just to get my car to stop at a light. My brakes would be smoking! I've even had a brake line burst and catch fire since it dumped brake fluid all over my smoking rotors (which was only a year old). Like... there were many times I'd come to a complete stop at a light in Miami, and smoke was coming off my front two wheels.

I'd replaced the pads numerous times, and the rotors... and what fixed it, was cross-drilled and slotted rotors. This made ALL the difference in the world. I cannot tell you. I didn't experience any more brake fade, AT ALL. Unfortunately, the Fiero Store no longer sells those cross-drilled and slotted rotors... but I upgraded to the Grand Am brake kit for the front, but then had the rear rotors (also cross-drilled and slotted) resurfaced slightly, and will be keeping the rear stock.




I can't tell you how well the Grand Am brake kit works... because it's been sitting in storage for 13 years when I took a job that required me to move everywhere. But want to be VERY clear... I had a really good condition Fiero, 50k miles, and the highest quality AC DELCO brake parts... all OEM, with all new fluid... and I can tell you, the stock brakes are absolutely... ABSOLUTELY inadequate for a stock V6 Fiero that's actually driven spiritedly. I'm not a race car driver, but I'd be really interested to hear from someone who's actually raced a V6 Fiero (not a 4 cyl) on an actual concourse for an extended period of time.

I think we can all agree I drove like an idiot, and it's amazing that I'm still alive, and that I didn't kill anyone else... but what can I say, it was Miami, lots of girls, and testosterone, and I was a moron ... and stock Fiero brakes are inadequate.
Frenchrafe MAR 20, 02:07 PM
I race a Fiero and I have Grand Am rotors all round. Grand Am calipers up front, Seville calipers on the rear. I have the S10 brake booster as well with a slightly bigger master cylinder.
The master cylinder: I don't remember what it came off? But it's physically identical to the original aluminium one, bit it's made of cast iron. (Bigger bore and piston of course.)

So to answer the question: No my brakes are not over powered compaired to original. However, I don't get as much brake fade or brake disc/rotor overheating.
The pedal feels pretty much as original. I can, and have locked up the brakes on a trackday, but everything is under control. No rear lockup before front, no spin outs!

My opinion: Grand Am rotors just reduce the brake fade and overheating on a circuit. Doesn't make much difference for normal everyday driving.

------------------
"Turbo Slug" - '87 Fiero GT. 3800 turbo. - The fastest Fiero in France! @turboslugfiero
https://youtu.be/hUzOAeyWLfM

richard in nc MAR 20, 04:51 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

As to the Tool above...
I have several in different sizes & brands. Example: 10mm to get to 1 nut holding lifter cover for Duke w/o removing the alt.

Can Help but often easy to bend the "hinge" when can't reach trying to put the wrench on head/nut. Many maybe "adjustable" hinge by tightening a bolt there, even they may need the hinge wrap w/ electrical tape or heat shrink to limit moving.

If you go to flea markets etc... Often can find single ratchet heads there w/ or w/o the hinge very cheap even for know brands.




it was 10 dollars to my door next day.
richard in nc MAR 20, 05:12 PM
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[This message has been edited by richard in nc (edited 03-22-2024).]