Steering column issue (Page 2/3)
1985 Fiero GT AUG 15, 11:07 PM
Ok, thanks. It looks like the best solution will be a junkyard steering column. Now I just need to find a junkyard! Thanks again
Patrick AUG 15, 11:44 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Non-PS does put a bigger load on the column to turn the wheels when not moving the car.
Try to turn while moving just a few Inches per second can help whenever possible.



I suspect it's a little more difficult to turn the wheels while stopped in a Fiero with an automatic transmission as well. due to the need to have a foot on the brake pedal... whereas with a manual transmission, the car will just sit there without the brake being applied (unless on an incline).

This is based on the presumption that turning the front wheels causes the wheels to actually rotate a bit in the process. If the wheels can't rotate freely, then I suspect the front tires then have to "scrub" somewhat on the blacktop, adding to the force required to turn the steering wheel.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-16-2023).]

1985 Fiero GT AUG 16, 07:37 AM
You're right, the other thing is, depending on suspension load and the angle of the road/driveway, turning the steering wheel can occasionally actually push the car forward or backwards a little bit, say down a slight incline
1985 Fiero GT AUG 16, 07:49 AM
Although in an automatic it may be easier for many drivers to modulate the gas, for example give it a little blip while you turn the wheel, so you're moving a little bit, which makes it easier to steer, whereas with a manual, more or less you need to either turn the wheel while stopped, unless you are able to fully drive, there is no quick little press of the throttle in 1st, then quick little press in reverse, etc that helps in u turns on a very narrow road. I say many drivers because most drivers find it hard to drive stick, let alone manual steering to, but there are certainly drivers who can modulate the clutch and gas just as well as your average automatic driver, while getting an arm workout at the same time!
theogre AUG 16, 10:51 AM
Yes, holding the brake on does affect steering effort because wheels can't rotate. This happens to any trans because car move easy on anything but level ground. AT can be worse like just started engine cold and have higher idle and thus loads everything more when brake are needed.

Note that PS in many vehicle "hinds" aggressive Castor that make them easier to drive straight on very bad roads.
Fiero and others have < 2°+ castor but PS vehicles often have ≥ 2°+.
E2A--> In some models w/ PS as an Option, Alignment spec Castor often have different # for manual vs PS.

Why? More castor make car go straight but also affects Steering Effort and w/o PS steering you can't steer @ low speed w/ more caster. Also why 84-87 Fiero and some others have steering stabilizer on the rack to stop RR tracks etc steering the car. Good stabilizer can't tell is there because of valve design only "lock" when "hit" when wheel hits a big bump etc.

If Front wheels never hit something backing into a parking spot, many never know what castor does. Because when in Reverse car now has Negative Castor and Steering can try to pull the S-wheel very hard or try to pull it out of you hands. And can happen w/ PS too. Is why is never fun to back-in to my driveway because of "curb" design and apron where meet the street.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-16-2023).]

Spoon AUG 16, 09:22 PM
1985 Fiero GT, pardon the semi-hijack but this topic brought back some memories from the 1960's GM cars with power steering. Turning the steering wheel lock to lock on a P/S car not in motion would cause the right and left front of car to raise slightly. I was always curious about this since I've never experienced it in later GM models. I learned to drive on those battle-class ships and as a young child I could do a lock to lock using just 2 fingers with no forward movement of the car. Chrysler vehicles seemed even easier.
So how did they do it? Neg-caster, camber, toe or higher pressure PS pumps?

ps: Horns were awfully loud too. I recall scaring myself as the driver as well as the motorist it was intended to warn.

Spoon


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"Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut

1985 Fiero GT AUG 16, 09:34 PM
No problem, yeah it would be the castor, the angle of the wheels makes it so that as you steer right the left wheel ends up ahead of the axle, right wheel behind the axle, and due to the angle of the suspension which is designed to take bumps better and steer straighter, it would lower the left and raise the right.
theogre AUG 17, 12:00 AM

quote
Originally posted by Spoon:
Turning the steering wheel lock to lock on a P/S car not in motion would cause the right and left front of car to raise slightly. I was always curious about this.....

Is cause by Caster said above. Example: Ford Maverick cars Manual Steering had ~ 1-1.5°+ while Optional PS had ~ 3.5°+ and "jack up" when turn to lock.
You likely just didn't see on other PS cars.

You can't drive a vehicle w/ Negative Caster. Not even w/ PS.
If don't have to backup often like I do above... Find a small pothole in some parking lot and drive over it forward w/ 1 wheel then backup. Backing over it = neg caster and should notice a big dif even w/ good stabilizer.
Spoon AUG 18, 09:48 PM
1985 Fiero GT & Ogre, thanks for the followup. Curiosity solved.

Spoon

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"Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut

BHall71 AUG 19, 03:06 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Also "Hates" people that Pull Down to Turn the car.




Always shake my head when I see people drive like this. Always reminds me of some little girl that's not strong enough to turn the steering wheel properly. Some were never taught how to drive properly.

Brian