Coolant Query: Preventive Drain and Fill vs. Fully Flush? (Page 2/3)
sleek fiero MAR 22, 10:51 AM
I agree you must not dump antifreeze. As much of a pain in the ass as it is please catch and send to be recycled ! Here is a couple of reasons to flush and refill. The bottom of the block tends to collect sediment that builds up around the bottom of the cylinders. Remove the block drainplugs and flush to remove this crud that can eventually damage or overheat your engine. This same crap can build up in your radiator tubes and tanks eventually destroying your rad and or heater core. The other reason is as the coolant looses its rust inhibitors it gradually eats away at your cylinder head gaskets and machined gasket surfaces of your block and intake manifold . Also the coolant lubricates the seal in your water pump . Just saying Sleek
One more thing. This happened to my 2.8. The thermostat housing got a pinhole from corrosion where the thermostat Oring sat. I found it quite difficult to find a good replacement.

[This message has been edited by sleek fiero (edited 03-22-2023).]

Vintage-Nut MAR 22, 10:55 AM
I hope the majority of people know that antifreeze/coolant is highly toxic and it’s a hazardous material plus it can be recycled properly.

Back to the main subject of coolant methods and monitor tools:

I’ll use two different examples; a hot tub and a marine aquarium…....

*A hot tub is the coolant flush technique: when it is deteriorated, it is fully drained.

*A marine aquarium is never drained, instead it uses partial water changes to maintain the liquid PLUS monitor tools for the pH, salt, etc.

So,
Nobody monitors their coolant?
Everybody ‘guess’ it is time and fully flushes it?
olejoedad MAR 22, 11:52 AM
Antifreeze is not a hazardous waste.
Used antifreeze might be considered hazardous, if contaminated with hazardous materials.

With that said, some local regulation may exist in your area.

Universal (yellow) antifreeze is propylene glycol, not ethylene glycol, and mixes with the dexcool and green types.
It is much less toxic than either dexcool or the green ethylene glycol formulations.

Municipal sewage systems handle used antifreeze very well.

Recycling is a great idea, and is very effective.

As to maintenance frequency? Complete flush and fill every other year. Tap water is A-OK to use in most instances.
theogre MAR 22, 01:34 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
Antifreeze is not a hazardous waste.
Used antifreeze might be considered hazardous, if contaminated with hazardous materials.

It may not be a HAZMAT when new in factory container. Used Coolant and water with it Is a HAZMAT because often has Lead and other Metals and more compounds that are Regulated Waste in most places.
olejoedad MAR 22, 01:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:It may not be a HAZMAT when new in factory container. [b]Used Coolant and water with it Is a HAZMAT because often has Lead and other Metals and more compounds that are Regulated Waste in most places.



Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with current regulations.

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 03-22-2023).]

theogre MAR 22, 01:52 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
Universal (yellow) antifreeze is propylene glycol, not ethylene glycol, and mixes with the dexcool and green types.

Wrong.
Read the label or MSDS/SDS for Yellow and most other color Coolant. Many fools think DexCool is PG too because can't read the label on it or the MSDS that said is EG.

From just one of many Current MSDS/SDS available anywhere Example: https://images.homedepot-st...a8e-5b5c826e2082.pdf
code:
PRESTONE ® ANTIFREEZE/COOLANT SDS501
3. Composition/Information On        	CAS No. 	Amount
Ethylene Glycol                        	107-21-1	75-95%
2-Ethyl Hexanoic Acid, Sodium Salt	19766-89-3	1-5%
Neodecanoic Acid, Sodium Salt    	31548-27-3	1-5%
Diethylene Glycol                     	111-46-6	0-5%

9. Physical and Chemical Properties
APPEARANCE: 	 Yellow liquid

Nearly All Other Types/Colors are EG with different Additives that roughly classified in 4 types. Is the Additives often don't play with other types or have other problems like DexCool jelling in the system.
1. Inorganic Additive Technology as in silicates used in "green" coolant pushing 100 years now.
2. Organic Acid Technology includes GM DexCool
3. Hybrid Organic Acid Technology is a mix of 1 and 2 use by Ford and some others as Factory Installed Coolant. I believe "Universal" Coolant product likely are in this class.
4. Hybrid and Electric Vehicle Cooling Systems Do Not use any other coolant but OE because coolant often flows thru battery packs and most have no clue how that is done by car makers.

About the Only Propylene Glycol Coolant for Vehicles available at retail are Sierra from Old World makers of Peak EG Coolant and Prestone LowTox and Both are Green Liquid under MSDS section 9.
If your going to dump coolant on the ground then use Sierra or LowTox.
While can also find Propylene Glycol as Pink RV antifreeze for use in Water Storage tanks. This is Not made for Engine Coolant.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 03-22-2023).]

Vintage-Nut MAR 22, 02:43 PM
HEY GUYS (or gals)

Please stay on the subject....

This thread is about METHODS to maintain the antifreeze/coolant system, NOT SAFETY
theogre MAR 22, 06:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by Vintage-Nut:
HEY GUYS (or gals)

Please stay on the subject....

This thread is about METHODS to maintain the antifreeze/coolant system, NOT SAFETY

And you already have an answer for mixing new and old coolant. IOW Not a good Idea.

Can "pass" a "float" test and most other tests by using your method because they only look at the amount of EG or PG in the solution. Warning: EG and PG have different specific gravity and testers are made for 1 or other type.

Weak Additives are Why many coolant products still have 3-5 years life. EG/PG itself doesn't go bad or get weak except someone adds plane water to refill a low system.
Is Why Most coolant testers only look at EG to save the car in winter. If there was a way to test the additives besides maybe Ph # then likely won't work with so many Additive Packages just from OEM.

So when you "Dump" 50% then refill w/ New Coolant...
EG/PG very likely is still @ 50/50 mix for anti freeze/boil and pass most testing but the Additives for anti rust etc won't be same and each time will get weaker and weaker. And that's assume you use Exact Same coolant product when you first flush the system.

Note that Additives may not just "Messes" w/ the water... Example: Old Green EG w/ Silicates actually Coat the metal parts to help prevent "rust." In very short acts like Galvanize skin to keep water and crap away actually touching the metal.
sleek fiero MAR 22, 08:36 PM
If you really want to accurately test go to your autoparts store and get a test strip kit which can test freeze point and ph far better than a standard squeeze bulb float tester. The test strips were the only test we were allowed to use in the Kenworth shop I worked at. They were the only warranty approved method of testing antifreeze for both Cat and Cummins engines. The important thing about flushing is you remove some of the sediment thats built up over time. Less sediment =better cooling.
Vintage-Nut MAR 22, 08:45 PM

quote
theogre
So when you "Dump" 50% then refill w/ New Coolant...
EG/PG very likely is still @ 50/50 mix for anti freeze/boil and pass most testing but the Additives for anti rust etc won't be same and each time will get weaker and weaker. And that's assume you use Exact Same coolant product when you first flush the system.



Thank you for a better explanation and 'why' the full flush is the only answer.....
VN