New day, new clutch problem (Headscratcher alert) (Page 2/5)
Patrick NOV 03, 05:28 PM

quote
Originally posted by Dukesterpro:

Maybe when the flywheel is made they preinstall them for other vehicles? But what other vehicles would use that flywheel and need one where the fiero wouldn't?



I think you're getting confused as to where the pilot bushing is located.
Spoon NOV 03, 09:05 PM
During your last assembly how much run-out (horizontal & vertical) was on the transmission output shaft. Also output shaft diameter at the tip versus the pilot bushing internal dimension. Tech manual may give you the minimum & maximum spec's. Too tight = binding especially when thing warm up.
Too loose = wobble and excessive wear. That info will go a long way if indeed the input shaft is long enough to engage the pilot bushing with the proper depth.

I can relate to your issue. On the job there was a fleet of International DT466 diesels with auto trans. The automatic trans in one would always fail and the local dealer would rebuild or repair it under warranty. On the 3rd failure the breakdown was closer to another International dealership so it was towed there. They discovered that the transmission was the wrong one for that vehicle rating, hence all the failures. Apparently they were short on transmissions at the factory and they substituted whatever was available to keep the line going.

My personal experience ordering a new Dodge van in 1973 for self customization. First day all the dash gauges went up in smoke. Took it back and all gauges, sending units, etc, were replaced. This went on and off for 2 years and I traded it back in at same dealer. Two owners later I saw it in a driveway and a guy was washing it. I told him I was the original owner and the problems I had with gauges. He had the same issues and it turned out to be an under rated alternator not able to maintain proper voltage when all accessories were being used. The voltage regulator for the sensitive gauges would allow an over voltage condition wiping out the gauges. Another case of it came from the factory that way. Probably ran out of the proper alternator and slapped one on to keep the line going. It happens...but not enough for a factory recall in these cases.


Spoon

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"Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut

Dukesterpro NOV 04, 09:16 AM
Hi Spoon,

Thank you for the stories, the one about the van was particularly funny, definitely wouldn't expect that out of a new car.

I am not entirely sure what the term runout means. But I will describe everything I can in the general vicinity. The input shaft has no wobble and appear to have no wear around the tip. if you pulled or pushed on it, it would move no more than a millimeter. The pilot bushing is the stock one, it has a inversed conical lip that lead to the center bore. Sizing is nearly identical to the original one by a few thousanths.

To be clear the last clutch was replaced to an unrelated issue, the clutch itself was still good, the throw out bearing had collapsed and was screaming away. And the clutch disk appeared to have been overheated and was slipping real bad. Tons of black clutch material in the bellhousing as well a snapped clutch fork finger that had been grenading around the inside of the bellhousing and left hundreds of little pockmarks everywhere.
Dukesterpro NOV 04, 09:19 AM
Also an update,

over the last two days and this morning the clutch has been on and off working fine. Sometimes you get in and the clutch wont give you a issue the whole way you drive, until you park and shut off the motor. Then when immediately try to start the motor again locks up and wont disengage. It seems to do this entirely randomly. Never really seems to lock of up mid drive. (If it doesnt get stuck in the first couple actuations it wont get stuck until you shut the motor off)

When the clutch is working, it works flawlessly with no weird smells or sounds and it engages very nicely aswell.


Im still working on getting in there, but I just wanted to provide all the information that I can
skywurz NOV 04, 11:47 AM
ok so what throw out arm do you have? you said you got the Fiero store one is it the cast one? did you also replace the fork? just starting to sound a lot like when the stamped steel arm cracks. OTOH about 6 months ago I picked up a project car cheap for having a similar issue. The dude said the clutch was shot. But It was like it was not disengaging. I messed with it and was able to get it to work fine a few times. I ended up pulling it apart and the throw out bearing was off the fork and the fork was cracked and bent.
Dukesterpro NOV 04, 12:22 PM

quote
Originally posted by skywurz:

ok so what throw out arm do you have? you said you got the Fiero store one is it the cast one? did you also replace the fork? just starting to sound a lot like when the stamped steel arm cracks. OTOH about 6 months ago I picked up a project car cheap for having a similar issue. The dude said the clutch was shot. But It was like it was not disengaging. I messed with it and was able to get it to work fine a few times. I ended up pulling it apart and the throw out bearing was off the fork and the fork was cracked and bent.



I actually misspoke, I replaced the clutch fork not the stamped steel arm.

I always figured a cracked arm would be a permanent issue and not a intermittent failure, nor would I think that bumping the clutch would cause the arm to work again. So to be honest I haven't pulled it off too look. I do know that mine is the original stamped 84 one that came with the car. I will pop it off tonight if this rain lets up!
skywurz NOV 04, 03:08 PM
yeah so im thinking the arm is cracked. When its cold the arm is more ridged and transferring more movement to the the actual fork. Once it warms up it bends more and is not transferring motion to the fork. just a thought.
Dukesterpro NOV 04, 04:17 PM

quote
Originally posted by skywurz:

yeah so I'm thinking the arm is cracked. When its cold the arm is more ridged and transferring more movement to the the actual fork. Once it warms up it bends more and is not transferring motion to the fork. just a thought.



Oh i sure hope you are right, that would be such a cheap and easy repair. But I feel like its less heat related then you are making it out to be. I can get it to get stuck just by bumping the clutch even if its ice cold. Also the fact that the pedal gets hard to push rather that softer. It still also wouldnt answer while bumping the starter and dancing on the starter would get the arm to grab again.

I hope this awful rain lets up soon. Its a downpour out there. I need to investigate! I need answers!!!
Dukesterpro NOV 07, 12:00 PM
Good afternoon everyone,

Looks like its a worst cast scenario, its in the bellhousing. I checked everything. The clutch arm is in good shape, no cracks. Perfect Hydraulics. (even when its not shifting its still moving the correct amount) It just doesn't want to fully disengage randomly. After continuing to drive it it seems as soon as you "break it loose" by bumping the starter and pushing the clutch after the car starts to roll back. It works fine. But as soon as you shut the engine off and park, its stuck again.

Does anyone know if the inspection plate allows me to see the fork, TOB and shaft, or am i just going to be looking at the back of the flywheel. I just want to peek inside to see what Im dealing with.
A_Lonely_Potato NOV 07, 02:00 PM
removing the starter should allow you to see inside with a camera. otherwise there is not much gap between the flywheel/ring gear and the bellhousing. if you don't have an inspection camera, i wouldn't expect to see anything more than a tiny peek of the fork shaft.