quote Originally posted by La fiera: If a flat tappet cam gets wiped that only means two things; the oil used was EPA's new cutting oil was used during break-in, or the operarator even using the correct oil didn't do the breaking procedure correctly. I've built engines for a long time now, but one thing I do is that when it is time to start the engines, I'm the one that does the break-in procedure. After that, it's up to the engine's owner to keep the maintenance with the oil I recommend depending on the application. So, PMBrunnelle is right about people not keeping up with the maintenance. Zinc has a life span just like everything else. Why would you spent time, money and resources on an engine and then go and get the cheapest oil you can get!!! Tribology has come a long way from the dino oils from the 50's-80's. A high quality oil (not the "synthetic" oil you buy on special from your local autoparts store) can mimic the ball-bearing effect of a roller cam without the side load like Mr. Vizard explained. The proof is in the pudding!

I question how much better "good oil" is than the "cheap crap"...

I don't really think the rate "advantage" will have any noticeable improvement on a street driven engine, I'll also add that almost all professional race engines use some kind of a roller valvetrain except when not allowed by the rules governing the race.

any benefit the flat tappet receives via high quality oil will also be reciprocated to a roller cam as well.

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"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

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"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

quote Originally posted by Patrick: My understanding is that zinc kills cats, and I'm not referring to the furry kind.

Yes and Phosphorous and "Burning" Coolant from iffy gaskets can kill Cat's and poison O2 sensor(s).

Poison or otherwise "dead" O2 often won't set codes but can kill the cat w/ engine running rich or lean.

Intake gaskets for many engines can leak coolant internal to burn. Fiero Lower V6 and all l4 intake manifolds have coolant passing thru them. Example: Duke w/ #4 plug cleaner then others is sign intake gasket is leaking coolant to #4 runner.

quote Originally posted by pmbrunelle: Right, but keeping the catalyst working over 100k miles is the automaker's responsibility, not the oil producer's concern.

US EPA and others don't think so and Why every new API rating have less Zinc and Phosphorous. (Is also why US filling stations now only sell low to ultra low Surfer Diesel fuels.)

Engine burns Oil no matter how pistons and valves are sealed. Good engines never burn oil you see but Oil does burn. Not even back to 60's and 70's engines burn oil you measure easy unless something is wrong and that's changing oil at 6000-8000 miles.

"Standard" oil change for most vehicles now is 10,000 to 12,000 miles or Once a Year. And a big part of why is EPA and other gov's wants to Reduce Wast Oil.
Because many morons still dump used oil anywhere and won't walk or drive to anyplace to "recycle" it.
(While used oil can be truly recycled, most oil company just burns it as fuel w/ proper equipment.)

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

Well, since I build my own engines the way I like them, I also brew my oil the way I like it.
You see this oil? it is my kind of oil. This is an oil make specifically for 4 stroke cheap Chinese race engines.


This is the description the oil maker gives.

"Why Super Soup?
Super soup is a special formula designed specifically for the clone engine. No other oil manufacturers has paid attention to this Chinese engine like the crew from super soup has.

From the viscosity, anti friction additives, flash point and viscosity index; every little detailed in this formula was thought specifically for the clone engine!

It's a formula by clone racers, engine builders oil chemistry and lubrication consultants for the clone special and specific needs.

What is so special and specific about the clones?

Being mass produced there's a lot of variations in the castings, quality control is not the best like in America, clearances are always questionable and the metallurgy is nothing compared to the stout built Briggs or Honda engines just to name a few.

Fear of your side cover loosening up and emptying your crankcase while having fun? That's the condition that started these specific formulas.That means that if a product can improve the clone reliability the other engines similar in design will benefit from that product because the clone is the ultimate test mule, if it survived the clone, it can survive anything! The rest is a walk in the park!

What is super soup? In a real good soup you need the right ingredients mixed together by a very good chef right? Not all Chinese food taste the same, but all the ingredients are the same! So what makes the difference is the chef and the way he prepares and seasons the food. Also every good chef has a secret ingredient or a family kept secret recipe! Enter Super Soup 4T Racing Oil,For all non-filtered splash system air cooled high RPM 4 stroke engines.

100% synthetic, High shear oil with an outstanding additive package that does not rely on conventional high-Zinc to protect the engine. The BSP Formula chemestry creates a ball bearing effect to minimize friction by treating the mating surfaces and prevent metal to metal contact, and can withstand extreme pressure under the most severe conditions ensuring a cooler running engine.
A very high viscosity index to ensure a smooth and slow transition from a cold start to operating temperature maintaining oil film strength.
But why is a high viscosity index important for the clone?
Clones are known to run great while cold but once they are hot clearances change specially on the rockers and this affects cam duration and lift negatively, and it starts to loose power. Don't need to change oil every race or weekend because this formula is deigned to last in your crankcase resulting in more savings."


Did you notices he doesn't rely on ZDDP?

"100% synthetic, High shear oil with an outstanding additive package that does not rely on conventional high-Zinc to protect the engine"

If it's not ZDDP what is it?

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 12-24-2020).]