LK9+F40 (Saab turbo LSJ) swap (Page 2/9)
thesameguy MAR 30, 11:26 PM
Sounds like you've got it well in hand. This should be a really fun project & I'm looking forward to following along.

Where do you plan to mount the intercooler? That is always the roadblock when I start thinking about turbo Fieros... although I'm increasingly okay with just axing the trunk - I never use it anyway.
KillerFrogg MAR 31, 12:28 AM
@Sameguy Thankyou! I would hope so, I don't like going into things too blind. But there is some fun in blind discovery =)

For the intercooling issue, I am going to use the intake manifold from the supercharged SS cobalt. That engine and this one share all the major parts of the long block, everything from one bolts straight to the other.

The cobalt intake manifold has an air/water intercooler built in. While it is not huge it will more than support the amount of power I will be making, especially with the heat exchanger I will be doing for it. I am shooting for a "just because I can" of 300hp but it will live at the factory ~200. Being able to set up a dial to tell the computer how much boosts to target is a wonderful thing.

I ebay'd the manifold and a throttle body earlier this week. I'll post photos when they get here next week and I start mocking up the 90* throttle body adapter.
thesameguy MAR 31, 02:58 PM
I did not know that the LSJ had an integrated intercooler - that is (literally) very cool, and a great space saving approach. I would never get that sort of hybrid through smog here l, so a bummer for me. There is just so little flexibility with OBDII motors when it comes to swaps around here. My best approach might be a 2.0/2.3 from a 1994 Saab. It's the old iron block, but very stout and the engine management extremely hacker friendly. Rules out an F40, but the F25/F35 ain't so bad.
crazyred84 MAR 31, 08:39 PM
Don't have time to read this right now, but had to reply. I just picked up a LK9 a few weeks ago with an F35, which is also going in my 84! So excited to see more ecotec swaps in the making and even more one with another Saab motor. As far as I know there are only a few L61 and LSJ swaps out there and I'm not even sure how many are actually on the road. I'll definently be following this one!

*Edit*
Saw you mentionted tuning the T8 ECU, I've been following/revived this thread over on a Saab tuning forum. Looks like they're pretty close to being able to run the ECU as a stand alone unit. I'm hoping they get something worked out in the next few months so I can retain the stock wiring and save a bunch. As for the Power steering pump delete, thanks for the heads up. I was going to make my own block off plate, but what's your plan for the vaccuum pump delete?

[This message has been edited by crazyred84 (edited 03-31-2018).]

KillerFrogg APR 01, 01:49 AM
Cobalt intake manifold showed up today! It was reasonably clean but a previous owner decided to use half a tube of RTV instead of the correct o-rings in a few spots so I cleaned it up as best till I get around to media blasting it.
The housing on the side with the hose barbs are the water connections for the built in intercooler. I need to make some modifications to that part and will post photos and I get to that.
The barb in the middle that has been added after the fact is the dual pass modification. It has 4 cooling cores, and normally runs them all in series. The dual pass mod splits it into two pairs of cores running in series, and those two sets are run in parallel. This helps keep the IC water cooler and lower the restriction of the system, increasing flow rate.
Interestingly, this "drill a hole and screw in a new barb" is exactly how GM did this for the upgrade kits they sold when this engine was in production.


For the vacuum pump delete, the LSJ cam sensor module bolts right in its place. Bing bang boom done. The Haltech does not support the Saab cam home signal that originally came on the engine, but they have a trigger profile for another Ecotec that uses the exact same crank and cam trigger wheels. The other ecotec engines just have it pressed onto the cam and a boss on the head for the pickup instead of having it in a separate bold on housing.

I am going to run an electric brake booster vac pump in the front bay. With how much rewiring I plan on doing to fully integrate the Haltech into the car adding that is going to me a minor deal.

For those that do not have xray vision and are wondering, here is a PERFECT AND TO SCALE drawing of the inside of the intercooler that was totally not done in MS paint The blue are the heat exchanger cores that have water running through them.

[This message has been edited by KillerFrogg (edited 04-01-2018).]

thesameguy APR 02, 01:17 AM

quote
Originally posted by KillerFrogg:
For the vacuum pump delete, the LSJ cam sensor module bolts right in its place. Bing bang boom done. The Haltech does not support the Saab cam home signal that originally came on the engine, but they have a trigger profile for another Ecotec that uses the exact same crank and cam trigger wheels. The other ecotec engines just have it pressed onto the cam and a boss on the head for the pickup instead of having it in a separate bold on housing.



Mind: Blown
wftb APR 04, 04:10 PM
Very interesting build. Just wondering why you need a vacuum pump for your brake booster. I run a turbo 2.2 ecotec and I use the stock vacuum piping on the Fiero only it goes direct in to the ecotec intake maifold after the throttle body. I made a small vacuum manifold that also has fittings for the fuel regulator and boost guage reference lines. The check valve on the brake booster holds vacuum when the engine is on boost, and as soon as you are off boost the engine supplies full vacuum again. Works great.
KillerFrogg APR 04, 10:10 PM
Really I plan on doing an electric vacuum pump up front is mostly because I can. This engine had one on it, and I have to remove it to put the cam sensor in its place, and I am apt to believe that it was there for a reason. If it wasn't needed then GM would have saved the $$ and not used it.
Granted though it will be a good while before I get to the point where I really need to deal with the brake booster vacuum. I will figure out exactly what I am going to do once I get there.

As much as I want to get out and work on the engine, it snowed today. It is really hard to be motivated to work out in the cold when I can hang out inside and buy parts xD

The cobra throttle body showed up today. Should do the job nicely.


I test fit the S/C Cobalt manifold to make sure it fit with the alternator that came on this engine. Spoiler. It doesn't.
It needs about 3/8in more clearance from the back of the alternator to the intake to fit right. I have seen on the cobalt and saab forums that it is possibly to remove the plastic cover on the back and get enough room.
If not, looking at the drawings of the alternator from the S/C engine, the back half casing with a slimmer rear housing will bolt onto the front half from the non S/C engine and use all of the same guts. Would like to avoid having to frankenstein an alternator together though.






Here looking at the water lines coming off the intercooler. Going to remove the existing barbs, weld everything up, and add new barbs that stick out toward the oil filter housing.


And from the top, you can see the oil filter housing. I am going to need to make sure I still have room to get to it around the throttle body adapter.
KillerFrogg APR 17, 10:30 AM
Small update. Weather has been more or less miserable lately. Ice storms in the middle of April??
Not much major is going to happen till my brother gets the new engine swapped into his BMW and when he is done I can take over the bit of floor space in the barn for projects like this.
One that happens I will start getting the new Fiero striped and swapping all of the parts from the wrecked one over to it so I can get back to driving it. Then I can use the old shell to do all of the fitting of new engine.

Boring stuff first. Cam position sensor is in. Bolts right in place of the vacuum pump. Its super simple but once I figure out how to get it apart so I can clean the housing I'll post photos.



Not so boring. BOOOSSTTTT. The photos don't do it justice but this turbo is small
The factory turbo is "upside down/backwards" for a clean install in a Fiero. The hot side faces the trans and the cold side faces the passenger side of the car. Fine if you want to run lots of really awkward tubing and/or a pod filter in the back corner of the bay. Personally? No thanks. I want to use the factory air intake that comes through behind the drivers door.

This is the factory turbo setup.


This is how I will sit when it is in the car. I need to make an adapter that has two sets of bolt holes, 180* apart.
The intake side of the compressor will get a pipe routed nicely around the wall of the engine bay. Long, but simple and easy to deal with.
The compressor outlet is also in a much nicer location, a simple U shaped loop that will warp around the back of the engine much like where the exhaust cross over is on the V6's.
Turbine outlet, much like everything else, much easier to deal with now. I will probably run it forward under the engine, do a loop with a cat in it about in the same location where the 4cyl cat is, then from there there back under and to the factory muffler location.
Though exhaust stuff is a long way out and will be one of the last things I get to most likely.


It is an awkward photo, but I was trying to show how much clearance there is between the turbo bits and the trans/other stuff like the coolant cross over. Relative to the axle, (in real life) it looks like the turbo sits no farther out the the 4cyl intake, so will clear the trunk fine and leave space for a muffler, or possibly the lack of one?, where the original was. Turbo was gap is there to approximate the thickness of the 180* flange adapter, it will probably be 5/8in or so.


Turbo off the engine so I can clean it, replace seals, and re-clock the center section to put the oil lines right side up with the unit upside down. It is in great shape, but its off and rebuild kit is cheap.
Spadesluck APR 17, 10:34 AM
How hard was it to take apart the turbo? I have an ATI supercharger on my Camaro and would not dream of rebuilding it myself. ha