The 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship... (Page 1/6)
olejoedad JAN 24, 05:24 PM
For your perusal and comment.....


https://thefederalist.com/2...thright-citizenship/
blackrams JAN 25, 12:07 AM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

For your perusal and comment.....


https://thefederalist.com/2...thright-citizenship/



An interesting read, thanks for posting it. I'm sure this debate will make it to SCOTUS.
If, everything in that article is accurate then it would seem DJT may be sending a lot of "Anchor Babies" to back where their parents are from. Could get complicated though depending on who and where the father is from.

Rams
cliffw JAN 25, 11:41 AM
From linked article.


quote
Their argument, that the U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that the 14th Amendment guarantees birthright citizenship for practically anyone born here, is flatly wrong as a matter of law.



I believe that is Trumps beliefs.

olejoedad, good article. It is right to become a citizen through immigration laws. Birth tourism from other countries should not be allowed to allow to the birth parents to be here.
olejoedad JAN 25, 03:35 PM
The whole crux of the issue is whether or not the immigrants that give birth to a child on US soil are here legally.

In the SCOTUS decision, the parents were here legally, so their child was granted birthright citizenship, as they were under the jurisdiction of the US.
silver 85 sc JAN 27, 08:54 PM
Just for clarification the definition of jurisdiction is


ju·ris·dic·tion
/ˌjo͝orəsˈdikSHən/
noun
the official power to make legal decisions and judgments.

a system of law courts

Illegals do not have power to make legal decisions or judgments.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Note that 2 conditions have to be met, born and subject to the jurisdiction, and naturalized and subject to the jurisdiction. Looks pretty clear to me.
blackrams JAN 27, 11:12 PM

quote
Originally posted by silver 85 sc:

Just for clarification the definition of jurisdiction is


ju·ris·dic·tion
/ˌjo͝orəsˈdikSHən/
noun
the official power to make legal decisions and judgments.

a system of law courts

Illegals do not have power to make legal decisions or judgments.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Note that 2 conditions have to be met, born and subject to the jurisdiction, and naturalized and subject to the jurisdiction. Looks pretty clear to me.



I can agree with this, I simply question what the courts will do. I have no doubt this will end up at SCOTUS.

Rams
NewDustin JAN 28, 10:34 AM
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States."

Let's break that down:
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States" - If you were born here, or became a naturalized citizen, that's easy
"and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" - This means subject to the laws of the US, as in if you break the US' laws you go to US jail
"are citizens of the United States." - You get citizenship

Given that there are inarguably illegal immigrants in our jail system for crimes other than immigration, it's kind of hard to argue they aren't subject to our laws and jurisdiction. If not...do you believe we are holding those people illegally?
NewDustin JAN 28, 10:37 AM

quote
Originally posted by silver 85 sc:
Illegals do not have power to make legal decisions or judgments.


I understand the arguments here...but the language of the amendment clearly says the person must be born or naturalized, and subject to the laws of the US. Not vice versa. That would be a nonsensical, since no citizen has "jurisdiction" in the way it is used here.

[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 01-28-2025).]

olejoedad JAN 28, 03:26 PM
Perhaps you should read the complete article at the beginning of this thread.
NewDustin JAN 28, 04:51 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Perhaps you should read the complete article at the beginning of this thread.


I did, and can comment on that as well if you'd like. Are you particular to a point?

“Subject to the jurisdiction thereof” excludes children of undocumented immigrants...how about that?

If only we had the original debates and discussion about this recorded so we could turn to those. Oh wait...we do.

quote
Senator Trumbull: “What do we mean by ‘subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?’ Not owing allegiance to anybody else.”


Hey, that's pretty clear. Well wait...but if they're foreign then they owe allegiance to someone else, right?! Wait...they covered that too?

quote
Senator Conness: “The proposition before us…relates simply in that respect to the children begotten of Chinese parents in California, and it is proposed to declare that they shall be citizens. We have declared that by law; now it is proposed to incorporate the same provision in the fundamental instrument of the nation.”


Oh snap...they laid that out in pretty clear terms.

But you know what, let's do like 'The Federalist' do and ignore the Framers' explicit intentions, and instead focus on related SCOTUS case. If only we could dig up the court's opinion and find the exceptions they listed...you know where this is going.

quote
"Exceptions or qualifications as old as the rule itself: of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory."


Snap again! There's nothing in there about the citizen status of the child's parents. And there they go deferring to the Framers, the DEI-loving bastards.