THIS DEBATE IS ACTUALLY GOING TO MEAN SOMETHING (Page 9/22)
cliffw SEP 10, 12:49 PM

quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
The argument for DEI hiring goes something like:

P1. There is a difference in opportunities available, not just outcomes, for some groups ...



Wrong. The argument for DEI hiring is that outcomes for all colored people and genders should mirror the percentage of populations of all colored people and genders.


quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
The argument for DEI hiring goes something like:

P2. Those groups are equally capable of performing in the roles this lack of opportunity impacts
C. Opportunities should be directly extended to those groups impacted by this gap



Correct. The argument for DEI hiring is that outcomes for all colored people and genders should mirror the percentage of populations of all colored people and genders.

Which is bullzhit ! Those groups are not equally capable of performing in the roles the rolls they have no experience in.


quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
If you believe that all gender and racial groups have the exact same access to opportunities, then DEI hiring/staffing/whatever will make no sense; you disagree with a core premise of their rationale.



There it is ! If you believe that all gender and racial groups do not have the exact same access to opportunities you are racist and sexist.


quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
If you assume a "brown woman" will naturally perform worse than a a more traditionally colored or gendered candidate, DEI hires will make no sense; again you disagree with a core premise of their rationale.



There it is again. Racism and sexism. What makes you think color or sex matters ? What makes you think "we" assume ?
cliffw SEP 10, 01:02 PM

quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
Do you believe that everyone in the US has the exact same level of opportunity, and that no group suffers from any kind of lack of opportunities available to other groups? If so, what do you think accounts for the socio-economic differences amongst groups particular to our country?



Of course everyone does not have the exact same levels of opportunity. One can not graduate high school after completing 5th grade. Everyone does have the same level of opportunity to complete 5th grade and graduate high school.

The socio-economic differences are a direct result of making the most of opportunities that one facilitated. Sometimes doing better in life begins with how you parents did.


quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
SCOTUS did not strike down "affirmative action." They struck down the implementation of race-quota-based affirmative action in schools. I don't disagree with that. I also never said I agree with any particular implementation of Affirmative Action or DEI policies; I just described the rationale behind them. The SCOTUS decision even leaves room for DEI policies as long as they are not directly treating applicants differently based on race.



Race, gender, same prejudiced motive.


quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
I don't necessarily disagree with that: I think affirmative action quotas treat a symptom instead of the problem, and realistic equity policies need to address the underlying causes.



What would be a realistic equity policy ?
ray b SEP 10, 02:33 PM

quote
Originally posted by cliffw:


What would be a realistic equity policy ?



one made by old rich white guys ?
or the courts about the same group with a few out voted exceptions
legislative bodys SOS as above

ask the victims ?
they never do that

well then what

massive fines for the exploiters slave owner
or the banks who loaned the money to build the ship pay crews to get the slaves
or the shipper who just sold cotton the slaves grew the mill owner who bought the slave grown cotton
or mill workers who's job needed slave cotton or no job
store who sold the final cloth or finished piece
or almost all had a bit somewhere

maybe just stop screwing with them by the prison planet system in the USA
stop redlines and job restriction and the cops shooting them on a whim
job training and mental help instead of swat teams and tanks

really commit to kinder gentler less repression in rule laws and the enforcement of them

look at mr hill on a sunday drive to work jerked out of a car on a whim by a pig

end that kind of pig demands for unearned respect
end putting people face down in the dirt by the pigs
they seldom do that to old white rich guys
not doing it to any one would be equality
Valkrie9 SEP 10, 03:24 PM
Sloganeering of the CCP/PLA !
Drink a shot when Kamala blurts :
' Going Forward '
' Our Democracy '
' Gun Control '
' Right Wing Media Censorship '
' Voting Rights '
All of which are violations of the Constitution.
You will have noticed that so far, no Dempartie representative has been convicted of treason, so far.
[ uscode_house_gov_title18_chapter115 ]
Merrick Garland detained on January 27, complaining about his rights being violated.
Majorkas in the same court services van, claiming immunity.
Consequences of corruption.
The Dempartie Mob gets taken down.
~ Nuremberg Trials '46
The rounding up of foreign agents, dempartie communists, ccp/pla sycophants, blm, antifa, hamas, all the subversives.
Held in detention at the Ellis Island Camps on the far Arizona border, the limestone quarries.
Making America Great Again !
Patrick SEP 10, 07:53 PM

Rod the Mod...

BingB SEP 10, 08:07 PM

quote
Originally posted by cliffw:


There it is again. Racism and sexism. What makes you think color or sex matters ? What makes you think "we" assume ?



Because there is so much hard proof that racism and sexism exist.

-Scientific studies showing that identical applications for housing or employment are treated differently if they have an "ethnic" name.

-Multiple court cases finding proof that police use racial profiling and treat minorities differently. Many cases involving law enforcement admiting to using racial profiling.

-The existence of groups who not only admit to their white supremist beliefs but actually brag about them.

-The popularity of racist content on-line where individuals can not be identified.

[This message has been edited by BingB (edited 09-10-2024).]

BingB SEP 10, 08:42 PM

quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
What would be a realistic equity policy ?




Equity policies would generally be based on economic need, not race. But since minorities have higher poverty rates they would benefit more.

There are two huge basic steps we need to take to equalize opportunity in the United States.

--Equalize public education. Right now the public education system DECREASES EQUITY because the students that are already the wealthiest go to the best schools which just multiplies their advantage over the poor. All schools should be regulated by and equally funded by some state tax. And this means for ALL students. Not just the ones who have the resources to abandon a bad school.

--National health care. Every other industrialized country on the planet can do it, so we can to. Health insurance industry just carries too much weight. Insurance companies make about $40 billion a year in profits, and they provide zero health care. The cost of health care would drop dramatically if it did not include the cost of running insurance companies. But healthy care is another issue that DECREASES EQUITY. People with money get better health care so they are more healthy. Minor health issues are treated so they do not develop into major health issues. A serious injury or illness for just one single member of a family can take down an entire family. The number one cause of bankruptcies in the United States are medical bills.

Day care cost is the third thing, but it is not as big as the top 2. One of the major reasons many single women do not work is the cost of day care.
Valkrie9 SEP 10, 09:11 PM
BeeGees ~ Staying Alive
ray b SEP 10, 09:34 PM
melt down on going now
williegoat SEP 10, 10:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by ray b:

melt down on going now


Should we call a doctor for you?