PETROLPHOBIA (Page 55/66)
fredtoast SEP 10, 11:58 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:


They were under Bush for a very short period of time in 2006. It was cancelled almost immediately under Obama. Never restarted under Trump, though there were oil leases, sold, and subsequently cancelled under Biden.... https://www.eia.gov/analysi...08/anwr/results.html




Hey Mr. Seven Friggen Degrees. You just posted a graph of a projection from 2008 that shows ZERO oil production in ANWR until around 2017.

There has never been any oil production from ANWR. Zero

[This message has been edited by fredtoast (edited 09-10-2023).]

fredtoast SEP 10, 12:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

Lol, Fred... the dollar is worth 30%-35% less than it was just 3 years ago. You still don't get it.





First of all clearly none of your friggen degrees were in math because based on the rate of inflation a dollar today is worth about 15% less than it was 3 years ago.

And you are 100% correct in claiming that i don't get what the rate of inflation has to do with oil companies doing better under Biden than under Trump. the same inflation rate applies across the board to all industries, so it is not a factor in measuring their relative success.

So please explain.
fredtoast SEP 10, 12:14 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:


Like, what's so ridiculous here is that you think you're making a point... because if you go back and read all of the threads, it was YOU who didn't know that oil is sold on a global market.




My entire argument all along has been that the world wide market price sets the price of oil. And even our domestic oil companies value their oil based on the world wide market price. When the market price cost of a barrel of oil goes up then so does the price of every barrel already pumped and sitting storage tanks. The cost of production does not determine the value of the oil in storage tanks. the world wide market price does,

"Energy independence" does not effect the cost of energy to us at all. That is set by the international market price. All it means is that the domestic oil companies get bigger profits.
williegoat SEP 10, 06:40 PM

quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:

"Energy independence" does not effect the cost of energy to us at all. That is set by the international market price. All it means is that the domestic oil companies get bigger profits.


No. What it means is that when the vigoro hits the mixmaster, Putin, the Saudis, et al cannot push US around. We can tell them to go pound sand, with a great big smile.
82-T/A [At Work] SEP 11, 07:49 AM

quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:

No. You are wrong. The increase in price had nothing to do with the cancelling of the leases. That is why prices did not go up "sharply, immediately" when he did it. Your own assessment of the situation proves that you are wrong. Prices did not rise until months later when the world wide demand for oil started to increase significantly.

I have facts and numbers on my side. All you have is "It is true because I say so", and that argument is meaningless.








quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:

This is the internet. I have no idea if any of this is true. All I have to go on is the stuff you have posted here and the number of times I have corrected you.




Thank you for the compliment, that you think my education is so unbelievable that you doubt it.



quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:

Closing the pipeline did not diminish or reduce supply. It was just hauled by rail




It would have INCREASED supply... Fred... that's how this works. The pipeline would have gone directly to the refinery... and that's what Biden stopped. Let's not ignore the obvious here... WHY was the pipeline cancelled? It's because the Biden administration, like the Obama administration, wanted to reduce oil consumption... INTENTIONALLY by making it more expensive, which would then encourage people to purchase electric vehicles.



quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:

Hey Mr. Seven Friggen Degrees. You just posted a graph of a projection from 2008 that shows ZERO oil production in ANWR until around 2017.

There has never been any oil production from ANWR. Zero




It's a projection to show what oil production could be from 2008 to 2018 with new oil leases. It shows production from 2006-2007.



quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:First of all clearly none of your friggen degrees were in math because based on the rate of inflation a dollar today is worth about 15% less than it was 3 years ago.

And you are 100% correct in claiming that i don't get what the rate of inflation has to do with oil companies doing better under Biden than under Trump. the same inflation rate applies across the board to all industries, so it is not a factor in measuring their relative success.

So please explain.



So, it's ACTUALLY 18%, not 15%, but that's the government's figures when they use Headline CPI. Most places (including media) use CORE CPI, which does not include Food or Energy, which leaves out these two items intentionally because they believe they're too volatile. Headline CPI includes food and energy, but attempts to average them over time to make them less volatile, which in-turn does not really accurately portray what inflation is at any given time.

Energy is used everywhere to not only transport the goods that we purchase, but to power the plants that make them. It directly affects the cost of every product. Home prices have shot up exponentially... mostly due to people fleeing leftist states. But this drives up the values of property around them, which in turn increases the property tax requirements, which in turn increases the business costs for local businesses, which in turn increases the price to the consumer.

The problem with leftist media is that when they say "inflation has gone down," they hope that YOU as the voter will think... "Oh good... the cost of goods are going to go down." Which is not at all how this works. What it really means is... the cost of goods won't be increasing AS MUCH as they did before.

The only way to drive down costs is to increase competition... and Democrats don't like the free market because they cannot control it.



quote
Originally posted by fredtoast:My entire argument all along has been that the world wide market price sets the price of oil. And even our domestic oil companies value their oil based on the world wide market price. When the market price cost of a barrel of oil goes up then so does the price of every barrel already pumped and sitting storage tanks. The cost of production does not determine the value of the oil in storage tanks. the world wide market price does,

"Energy independence" does not effect the cost of energy to us at all. That is set by the international market price. All it means is that the domestic oil companies get bigger profits.




You're entire argument all along has been completely incorrect... and nothing you're saying here equates to what you were saying before. It's like you just learned something, and are trying to parrot it around because you think you just figured out how to use it to justify your argument that Democrats are good.

I'm repeating EXACTLY what I said before, so you don't try to deflect onto another discussion because you "lost" this one so badly...


"Energy Independent" means that the United States buys it's own oil production, so it doesn't NEED to purchase it from Iran. Countries buy oil from OIL PRODUCERS. When the United States was "energy independent," it meant that WE could produce oil more cheaply than it would cost to have it shipped from Iran or Russia, while still selling our oil in the global market. More than half the refineries are in the United States, so some countries will still ship oil here to be refined into gasoline (or other products) anyway... but yes, when oil can be produced more cheaply here in the United States... we no longer have to buy the oil that comes from Russia and Iran domestically because it will cost MORE. Do you think Saudi Arabia imports US oil?
82-T/A [At Work] SEP 11, 07:55 AM
Also... Fred, can you figure out how to multi-quote? It's not hard, seriously... being old as **** is not an excuse... everyone else here is also old as **** . Patrick is literally old enough to be my dad, and he knows how to multi-quote.
fredtoast SEP 11, 01:48 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

It would have INCREASED supply... Fred... that's how this works.



No. It would not have increased anything. Supply and demand determine how much oil is pumped and transported. and the same amount was transported by rail as would have been transported by the pipeline. If I am wrong then post some link to prove it. I have already provided mine.
fredtoast SEP 11, 01:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

It's a projection to show what oil production could be from 2008 to 2018 with new oil leases. It shows production from 2006-2007.






No it does not. The green portion of the graph is production from ANWR and it shows zero until a 2017. This was a projection made in 2007. There has never been any oil pumped from ANWR except one experimental well back in 1985.

If you really were in military intelligence, I am starting to understand how we lost to a bunch of guys who live in caves and throw rocks. Guess they did not listen too well when you told them you were smart because you say you are smart. Instead they realized that you can not even read a simple graph. Or use Google.

[This message has been edited by fredtoast (edited 09-11-2023).]

fredtoast SEP 11, 02:07 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I'm repeating EXACTLY what I said before, so you don't try to deflect onto another discussion because you "lost" this one so badly...



I never "lost" any discussion on this issue before. Just like here I am butting all of your claims using actual facts.

the graph you posted is a joke. All it proves is that despite having "seven friggen degrees" you have still not learned the difference between "correlation" and "causation".

The first thing an intelligent well educated person like myself notices is that you have cut off the graph so that it does not show the steady rise in gas prices starting in the end of November 2019 when Trump was still in office. If Bidens policies were the "cause' of the rise in prices you would not see the rise begin until he took office.

Basically what you have done is taken a gas price graph that would along with the demand of oil due to the end of the covid pandemic and tack on Biden policy initiatives that have nothing to do with the increase in gas prices. There is no causation proven at all by the graph you provided.
fredtoast SEP 11, 02:14 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

and Democrats don't like the free market because they cannot control it.




Absolutely correct.

Republicans love unregulated free markets like we had up until 2008. "Oh no need to regulate the investment market selling credit default swaps. Nothing could go wrong with an unregulated free market. Look at all the competition now that anyone can give a mortgage to anyone and just sell off the risk. BUSINESS IS BOOMING!!!"

Democrats are smarter than that.