Leftist Assasin Kills Democrat Lawmaker and Her Husband in Minnesota (Page 3/5)
NewDustin JUN 16, 11:10 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
As far as my opinion of the shooter, and the political narrative... the last dozen or so shooters (almost all of them) have either been trans, some kind of left-leaning person, or whatever.


Ok, I took this challenge. "Shooters" is a little vague, but if I include all trans folks I can find in mass shootings, shootings of public persons, or just widely publicized shootings...I can find 5 total trans "shooters" in the last 10 years. There are a few more convicted murderers and whatnot...but not what I think we mean when we say "shooters" here. We have 500-600 mass shootings a year in the US. Back of the napkin math tells me that is about 0.8%. Another quick search tells me trans folks are about 1.3% of the population. They're actually under-represented in mass shootings.

Non-trans men -on the other hand- make up about 98% of mass shooting perpetrators, while only making up 44-47% of the population. They are so over-represented in this dataset it is almost statistically exclusionary to all other groups.

So trans folks are such a statistically insignificant portion of both the population and mass shootings numbers that I'm not sure why they are getting a specific callout here.

I can't find any aggregate information on mass shooters' political affiliations. I have found 1-2 shootings that were expressly committed by leftist gunmen to support leftist causes, but at least as many from conservatives. I'd defer to whatever reasonable sources you have.

I don't think this kind of political violence 'belongs' to one side or the other...I think it belongs to people already predisposed to violence with access to resources to carry them out.

[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 06-16-2025).]

82-T/A [At Work] JUN 16, 12:27 PM

quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:

Ok, I took this challenge. "Shooters" is a little vague, but if I include all trans folks I can find in mass shootings, shootings of public persons, or just widely publicized shootings...I can find 5 total trans "shooters" in the last 10 years. There are a few more convicted murderers and whatnot...but not what I think we mean when we say "shooters" here. We have 500-600 mass shootings a year in the US. Back of the napkin math tells me that is about 0.8%. Another quick search tells me trans folks are about 1.3% of the population. They're actually under-represented in mass shootings.

Non-trans men -on the other hand- make up about 98% of mass shooting perpetrators, while only making up 44-47% of the population. They are so over-represented in this dataset it is almost statistically exclusionary to all other groups.

So trans folks are such a statistically insignificant portion of both the population and mass shootings numbers that I'm not sure why they are getting a specific callout here.

I can't find any aggregate information on mass shooters' political affiliations. I have found 1-2 shootings that were expressly committed by leftist gunmen to support leftist causes, but at least as many from conservatives. I'd defer to whatever reasonable sources you have.

I don't think this kind of political violence 'belongs' to one side or the other...I think it belongs to people already predisposed to violence with access to resources to carry them out.




There's TONS of shootings... but when I say shootings, it's the ones where everyone immediately jumps to make a political affiliation to. That is:

1 - School shootings.
2 - Politically motivated hostage situations (like the Discovery channel thing)
3 - Political shootings (hose/senate baseball game shooting, this one, etc.)
4 - Bombings at Abortion Clinics... or Anti-Abortion Support Centers, etc.


I use "trans" as a cover-all term for things like anyone who refers to themselves other than him/her (has "pronouns). Most of the recent shootings have been people who have had pronouns. It's fairly obvious of those kinds of shootings that we've seen... most of them within the past decade have been left-leaning. Again I say... it's really just that these people are insane. Insane people go to fringe ideas... whether it's someone who wants to join the NAZI encampment on the dark side of the moon, or they decide that they want to cut their dick off at the age of 16. A person who's trans and shooting people, is an insane person... they're trans because they're insane. There are non-insane trans people... these people don't do shootings.

Regardless... rhetoric needs to tone down. I think, personally, it's greater on the left, but I accept it could just be my exposure to it. Most of my friends are left-leaning, and of course, I'm responsible for everything a Republican politician does. But regardless... people have started to take politics as their personality. I'm Republican in name only...

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 06-16-2025).]

NewDustin JUN 16, 12:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I use "trans" as a cover-all term for things like anyone who refers to themselves other than him/her (has "pronouns). Most of the recent shootings have been people who have had pronouns.


I'm perfectly fine with that definition of trans...but I'm still seeing 5.



quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
It's fairly obvious of those kinds of shootings that we've seen... most of them within the past decade have been left-leaning. Again I say... it's really just that these people are insane. Insane people go to fringe ideas... whether it's someone who wants to join the NAZI encampment on the dark side of the moon, or they decide that they want to cut their dick off at the age of 16. A person who's trans and shooting people, is an insane person... they're trans because they're insane. There are non-insane trans people... these people don't do shootings.



I don't see the rational value in continuing to bring up trans people when they make up such a small proportion of mass shootings, both numerically and proportionally.


quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Regardless... rhetoric needs to tone down. I think, personally, it's greater on the left, but I accept it could just be my exposure to it. Most of my friends are left-leaning, and of course, I'm responsible for everything a Republican politician does. But regardless... people have started to take politics as their personality. I'm Republican in name only...


I agree with this....like completely. I think we all have a tendency to see what is leveraged at us much more than what comes from us, and that is very important to keep in mind.

82-T/A [At Work] JUN 16, 12:57 PM

quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
I don't see the rational value in continuing to bring up trans people when they make up such a small proportion of mass shootings, both numerically and proportionally.



I only mention it because of the last 10 school shootings, many of them (a majority?) have been trans / pronoun-based.
NewDustin JUN 16, 02:01 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I only mention it because of the last 10 school shootings, many of them (a majority?) have been trans / pronoun-based.


Since 2019 there have been 2 trans school shooters -Alec McKinney (2019) and Aiden Hale (2023)- and more than 200 shootings. There hasn't been a single trans shooter in the last 80 school shootings.
82-T/A [At Work] JUN 16, 02:18 PM

quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:

Since 2019 there have been 2 trans school shooters -Alec McKinney (2019) and Aiden Hale (2023)- and more than 200 shootings. There hasn't been a single trans shooter in the last 80 school shootings.




Again, it goes to what you define as "trans." As far as I'm concerned... "trans" is anyone who does not use he/him or she/her based on their sex at birth. I lump non-binary, they/them, race/car, etc... all into trans. I think for the sake of the argument, we can use that... since the point is that these are all mentally-ill people who believe they have some level of gender dysphoria. There have been at least four high-profile ones in the past few years.

There's also what we define as a "school shooting." And what we're ALSO talking about here, is a deranged child who indiscriminately goes to a school and attempts to shoot up as many people as possible. Counting instances where, for example... a 19 year old that's held back in Chicago goes to school and shoots a kid that wronged him the previous day, and then runs away... that, while yes... is technically a school shooting, that person is not necessarily mentally ill and is obviously not what we're talking about.

"Control of language" ends up being a way to shift the narrative... no matter how you look at it. Remember, we're talking about political narrative. The shootings are not random shootings in crime-ridden school districts with gangs. We're talking about the deranged kid, usually in a good school district, who brings a gun to school with the intent to kill as many people as they can. And yes... the majority of those lately have been "trans."


This article puts into perspective your stats: https://www.newsweek.com/ma...perpetrators-1790854


To the point, all four of those individuals are "trans," but I don't actually think they are. I think they're just mentally unwell, and they've picked being "trans" as something to hang their hat on, so to speak. I've known actual people with gender dysphoria... more than 25 years ago... and these are just ****ed up kids... not actual trans people. .

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 06-16-2025).]

Mike in Sydney JUN 17, 12:48 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
... The left tends to accept people with mental illness more readily than people on the right. Or I'd say... the draw from the left is greater on the left, simply because (other than their more or less dislike of Jews), the left tends to be more accepting of socially fringe ideas... which also (unfortunately) comes with it a sense of mental illness. While an insane person might align their actions with a political agenda... or a movie star they like, or an environmental cause, or any of the other reasons crazy people do what they do... it comes down to the fact that these people are insane.

WTF, Todd??? Now you're bring religion into it? Where did you get the notion that people on the left more or less dislike Jews? From what I've observed, people left of centre are more accepting of people of other faiths be they Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or atheist.

Why do you think the left tends to be more accepting of socially fringe ideas? For that matter what do you consider a socially fringe idea? Equal rights? Healthcare for people that can't afford it? Shelter for the homeless? Seems like many of these "fringe" ideas are what my minister talks about every Sunday morning. Who was it that came up with such radical ideas? Oh, yeah. I remember. Jesus.

I think you went a bit too far, Todd. I really do.

(Edited for punctuation.)

[This message has been edited by Mike in Sydney (edited 06-17-2025).]

Mike in Sydney JUN 17, 05:07 AM
Double post omitted.

[This message has been edited by Mike in Sydney (edited 06-17-2025).]

82-T/A [At Work] JUN 17, 01:41 PM

quote
Originally posted by Mike in Sydney:
WTF, Todd??? Now you're bring religion into it? Where did you get the notion that people on the left more or less dislike Jews? From what I've observed, people left of centre are more accepting of people of other faiths be they Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or atheist.

Why do you think the left tends to be more accepting of socially fringe ideas? For that matter what do you consider a socially fringe idea? Equal rights? Healthcare for people that can't afford it? Shelter for the homeless? Seems like many of these "fringe" ideas are what my minister talks about every Sunday morning. Who was it that came up with such radical ideas? Oh, yeah. I remember. Jesus.

I think you went a bit too far, Todd. I really do.




Your post is a bit messed up, so I cut some things out.

To answer this question specifically: "Where did you get the notion that people on the left more or less dislike Jews?"

Growing up... my personal exposure has seen that the left generally dislikes Jewish people. I moved to South Florida when I was 18, still a Democrat, and all of my friends were too. The comments people made (including maybe even myself at times, mostly through association) were all very anti-Jewish. Jews had, for a very long time, been Democrat-leaning. Many of them came to the U.S. relatively poor, and they worked union jobs in New York, and many of them eventually moved to Florida (the two places where the overwhelming vast majority of Jews in America live). Like you, I view "Judaism" as a religion... improperly I think... many Jews view it as a race.

There has always been this rhetoric from the Democrats that Jews own this or own that, or run this or run that... which I generally disregard. But I grew up hearing this from most of my friends. Fast forward... I married a Jewish woman, and we've been married for 20 years.

My daughter considers herself both... wears a star of David with a crucifix in the middle. She's friends with everyone, but she's constantly hearing anti-Jewish comments, kids making jokes, etc. These are kids... and I can disregard the same comments I heard when I was 19/20, etc.

But the anti-Jewish movement has been almost entirely from the left... and it hit a peak a couple of years ago in places like New York where certain minority groups were being very vocal about having to share community with Jewish people.

My entire family on my wife's side are Jewish... they are ultra-liberal... but they've waned significantly on politics over the past couple of years. They hate Trump... are always going on about it at family gatherings. They know I voted for Trump, can't understand how someone so wonderful could vote for Trump, blah blah... haha... but I don't really engage. But they also more or less hate Democrats now. The past couple of years have really been pivotal for the Jewish community.

I'd say that... regardless of where you stand on Israel / Palestine... the fact that this has gone on has led to people taking a stance that's become against Jews. On college campuses, Jews are harassed, prevented from going into class... and sometimes even beat up... just because they are visibly Jewish (have a star of David, or wear a yarmaku, etc.).


It's not something I think about regularly... but there is a shifting of the Jewish vote to the right. There's still a pretty solid majority... some 63-65% that vote Democrat still... but it's been a slow shift. What I can say... there are no right-leaning groups that are against Jewish people, but there are many left-leaning groups that generally take issue with Jews.


And on Jesus... yes... one of the things I tell my daughter every time... is that Jesus intentionally sought out those who were considered outcasts... whether that was those who were gay, lepers, or the poor. So, I've taught my daughter to treat everyone with respect.

Full Stop... my daughter is not Jesus. And she doesn't have an unlimited reserve of common sense and compassion. There's a limit to how much a teenager should have to absorb from all the problems of all the people she associates with. So, I've told her that while she needs to be kind and respect everyone... she also needs to learn to distance herself from those who consistently make their problems YOUR problems... as it can be emotionally draining and unfair to her as a person.


I think you kind of made this about religion, but I'm happy to respond to any questions, even if they are intentionally leading.
Doug85GT JUN 17, 02:15 PM
A few thoughts on recent developments.

The police say there is extensive notes and writings but no manifesto. I see this as a dodge to keep the assassin's writings and thoughts away from public scrutiny. We saw how the Nashville police did everything they could to hide the trans killer's writings from the public. I see that being repeated here.

The assassin wore a mask and did every he could to hide his identity and pose as a police officer. There was no 911 call for service at the 2nd lawmaker's house. The police preemptively went there when they found out about the first attack. His plan was to murder these lawmakers and escape. Imagine if he had succeeded. There would have been two or more Democrat lawmakers dead with no one knowing who killed them. What would have been the reaction to that?