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| Vaccinating against......climate change. (Page 3/4) |
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cliffw
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AUG 28, 05:39 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg:
Climate change is when weather patterns that used to be statistically unlikely, become statistically not unlikely.
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There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Nice try though.
No surprise at all, and meaningless. The global warming religious zealots, including main stream media have been inundating 'Americans'. Students are indoctrinated to believe in the green god.
rinselberg, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Who are the dim rods who make the claim that patterns that used to be statistically unlikely, become statistically not unlikely.
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cliffw
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AUG 28, 05:47 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by fredtoast:
No one here is saying "global warming" is man made. They are just saying that it is happening.
If we don't talk about who/what is to blame will you then admit that there is global warming? Aren't you one of those people who constantly say "We have had global warming before."? |
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Why is it now called climate change ?. Because it was an unsupported opinion which did did not fit the name.
Wait for it, why did they start adding 'man made' ?
Where are the results of the wild and crazy predictions ? I have a long list of them. Is man made global warming the reason Obama bought ocean front property in Arizona.
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fredtoast
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AUG 28, 06:12 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
Why is it now called climate change ?. Because it was an unsupported opinion which did did not fit the name.. |
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Okay, I understand that you don't agree that man has contributed to global warming, but are you actually saying that there is no global warming happening?
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cliffw
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AUG 28, 06:46 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by fredtoast:
This is absolutely true. The Chinese government was smart enough to subsidize investment in solar technology, while political interests in the United States forced us to keep cuddling the sack of big oil companies with with tax breaks.
Dumb people ruined our chance to be a worldwide leader in solar technology.
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You wouldn't know a dumb person if you were one. I am beginning to wonder.
Who was the first in space ? Russians. Now, we are the worldwide leader in space.
The Chinese are the largest contributors of man made global warming CO2 That is claimed. I have seen that they are opening new coal plants very often. They are laughing at us all the way to the bank. Also making us weaker.
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cliffw
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AUG 28, 07:15 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by fredtoast:
Okay, I understand that you don't agree that man has contributed to global warming, but are you actually saying that there is no global warming happening? |
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No.
I am saying 'so what'. Much ado about nothing.
Do you really want to talk to me about climate change ? Or are you pulling anther 'gotcha' tactic ?
You do not know me. I could fill the blanks in but, ... it wouldn't matter. I will fill in some of them in.
My vocation was drilling oil wells. Retired. I have been accused on this forum of siding with big oil. By a loved member of all on this forum. Dratts. Look him up. My previous vocation has nothing to do with how I think. He accepted my stance and came to believe me.
In the oil fields, I have worked in the searing south Texas heat. By the way, I worked 12 hour days, outside. It was hot. 114 degrees was the hottest I championed. The heat 'feel like' the true heat, ? I do not know. It did not matter, I was there no matter what.
In the oil fields, I have worked in the fridgid cold. 10 degrees was the coldest I championed. Snowing, hard winds, I do not know what the wind chill factor was. I was there no matter what.
Do you think the climate change is going to doom mankind ?
The climate always change. Always has, always will. Get over it.
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fredtoast
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AUG 29, 10:34 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
Do you really want to talk to me about climate change ? Or are you pulling anther 'gotcha' tactic ?
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I just asked a real simple question.
Do you think we are experiencing global warming right now?
Don't have to tell me it gets hot in Texas. I already knew that. That has nothing to do with global warming.
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fredtoast
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AUG 29, 10:43 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
Who was the first in space ? Russians. Now, we are the worldwide leader in space. |
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Thank you for a perfect example to prove my point. We only overtook the Russians in spaceflight when the GOVERNMENT made a HUGE investment in spaceflight technology.
That is exactly what China is doing right now with solar technology, and based on the history you just brought up, they will be far ahead of us until that changes.
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82-T/A [At Work]
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AUG 29, 12:40 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by fredtoast:
This is absolutely true. The Chinese government was smart enough to subsidize investment in solar technology, while political interests in the United States forced us to keep cuddling the sack of big oil companies with with tax breaks.
Dumb people ruined our chance to be a worldwide leader in solar technology.
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The investments aren't the problem... the U.S. spends a ton of money investing in green technology. The problem is that China, as a government-directed economy, has intentionally positioned itself to take over this market. ~10 years ago, most of this hardware and equipment was manufactured in Europe and other places other than China. But China has intentionally "acquired the supply chain" for all of these industries... by buying the rare Earth element mines that produce the minerals needed for manufacturing of solar panels, buying up the manufacturing businesses that produce them, etc.
It doesn't have anything to do with the US being stupid... just the fact that China is being smart ... in their goal of intentionally acquiring all of this. It's the "positive" if you will, of a dictatorship in that one person directs the entire country to do a certain thing, without care or concern for the individual interests of everyone else.
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rinselberg
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AUG 29, 12:59 PM
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There are certainly legitimate concerns about China, but I think what I am seeing here is the equivalent of a "misdirection play" in football... using China as a boogeyman in a disingenuous way to argue against adding more wind and solar energy to the U.S. energy portfolio.
Just over a month ago, Robinson Meyer, a journalist with a long track record at The Atlantic, had an op-ed in the New York Times.
"America Can’t Build a Green Economy Without China." Excerpt:
| quote | Now, America is in its own game of economic catch-up—in the booming area of clean energy. As of this year, China is the world’s largest car exporter — thanks to a surging electric vehicle industry—and it commands at least 74 percent market share in each step of the solar panel supply chain. China learned to master the solar, battery and electric vehicle industries through the 2010s, while the United States was debating whether to pass clean-energy policy—and even whether climate change existed at all. With the Inflation Reduction Act, the United States now has an opportunity to become more competitive, and nothing gets lawmakers from across the political spectrum pumped up faster than the prospect of crushing China.
But the United States cannot build a competitive renewable or electric vehicle industry from scratch. The history of innovation—and of the modern world, frankly—shows that American engineers will progress in these industries only when they can work with their Chinese counterparts.
Look no further than the pickle Ford is in now. By 2026, Ford wants to start selling electric vehicles outfitted with batteries made of a chemical cocktail known as L.F.P.— lithium, iron, and phosphate—to the American market. L.F.P. batteries can be charged more quickly and more often than the cobalt and nickel batteries that Ford uses today; they’re also cheaper and more rugged and the minerals are easier to source.
The only problem: Ford doesn’t know how to make L.F.P. batteries on a large scale. No American company does. Although Americans first invented and developed L.F.P. technology, back in the 1990s, Chinese companies were the ones that figured out how to produce it at scale. Today, Chinese companies essentially have a monopoly.
But Ford has a solution. In February, it announced plans to open a new $3.5 billion L.F.P. battery factory in Michigan. It would license the technology from a Chinese battery maker, whose engineers would—in the words of Bill Ford, the automaker’s chairman—“help us get up to speed so that we can build these batteries ourselves.” It seemed like a win-win: The Chinese company, CATL, would get cash and prestige; Ford would learn how to make these batteries; and America would get 2,500 new manufacturing jobs. This was, apparently, exactly the kind of situation that President Biden’s climate law was meant to set up. |
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[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 08-29-2023).]
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82-T/A [At Work]
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AUG 29, 01:42 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg:
There are certainly legitimate concerns about China, but I think what I am seeing here is the equivalent of a "misdirection play" in football... using China as a boogeyman in a disingenuous way to argue against adding more wind and solar energy to the U.S. energy portfolio.
Just over a month ago, Robinson Meyer, a journalist with a long track record at The Atlantic, had an op-ed in the New York Times.
"America Can’t Build a Green Economy Without China." Excerpt:
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No, this is not a misdirection. This is me looking at all angles of this problem. As a nation, our biggest threat is China. They are ultimately our biggest long-term threat to our existence as a world power, and support to and from our allies. Right now, we are directly funding China by specifically focusing on these two green energy directions. This was directly intentional by China.
So my statement is that solving our energy problem, while helping the environment (literally), reducing our dependence on China, and preventing our funding of China's military... we should be focusing (right now) our efforts as a nation on nuclear power. Specifically, Gen-4 power plants, for which we have many decades of available fuel, which is currently the radioactive waste from prior power plants.
As a nation, we should not be building our infrastructure off Chinese manufacturing. If we were serious about this... it wouldn't take much for the president to come out and say... "I want to build wind and solar, and I want it manufactured in the United States, with elements mined from non-Chinese owned mines."
Personally, we could also significantly reduce the load on the grid by giving tax breaks to builders (not just home owners) for building homes with solar panels already installed on the home. Lots of opportunity from this.
Instead... what we're effectively doing right now is, Congress is writing checks to China.
EDIT: I really do not like that we (our government and state governments, and public utilities) are sending billions and billions of dollars to China. I would much rather a socialist "New Deal" where everything was built in the United States to do the same thing, even if it was more expensive. My argument is totally the same as it is for similar issues:
- MLK Monument : WHY did we pay someone in China to make the MLK monument, from granite sourced from China? It's so offensive in my opinion to a historical American leader, and to the U.S. as a whole.
- NASA Rockets : WHY did we have to use Russian Soyuz rockets to launch our own astronauts into space for so long? I know WHY... but at least now we use Space-X.[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 08-29-2023).]
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